Unofficial Masters Week Thread

[SoonerBS]

OK, guys, it's one of, if not the BEST week of golf (contrary to the belief of all fuzzy foreigners opinions about the British Open). Post your thoughts and comments in here about anything "Masters." And, if you want to talk about sex WITH WOMEN, then that's OK, too.

[SoonerBS]

I think there are an awful lot of "Tiger Dick Suckers" still out there.

http://www.pgatour.com/2010/r/04/04/tiger.prediction/#

You guys have seen my wagers on Tiger this week and I am not predicting him to do well at all. I just think there is a big difference between "practicing" golf and playing "tournament" golf. It is going to be tough for him to come back after a long layoff, with all the added baggage to go with it, and have the focus he needs to do well in such a big tournament.

[SoonerBS]

This is somewhat Masters related: Kim wins Shell over the weekend and carries momentum into this week (he will not do well either because I am sure he spent all last night, will spend a good part of today and tonight, spending his winnings on booze and hookers).

[SoonerBS]

I think the big news this week will be that Tiger is found in hotel room nailing Kelli Tihglman from behind . . . . .

[Horseballs]

Even though it is undoubtedly the major with the weakest field, it is probably my favorite tournament to watch. My albeit brief history of watching The Masters has been superb. I never even considered watching golf on TV until I watched Ben (short-knocker) Crenshaw win in honor of his dead coach. From there, I got to see Norman's epic choke job, Tiger crush everyone, Mickelson break through, and Kenny Perry realize he was Kenny Perry.

[Not a hacker]

I suppose there is plenty to like about this quaint little cracker arse invitational, but I've dragged myself out of bed at ungodly hours only to watch the Shark fold like a cheap suit too many tmes to call this my favourite tournament.

[The Purist]

Gotta agree with Sooner on the AK binge.

Definitely my favorite tournament to watch. The tournament usually makes for great theater. The Mickelson & Woods final pairing last year was freaking awesome.

[Not a hacker]

Gotta agree with Sooner on the AK binge.

Definitely my favorite tournament to watch. The tournament usually makes for great theater. The Mickelson & Woods final pairing last year was freaking awesome.

But you must admit, if you could somehow mix out Nantz it would be a far more pleasureable experience. I find I need to have the remote handy in case I need to quickly hit the mute button when they don't give the warning that he is coming on.

[The Purist]

But you must admit, if you could somehow mix out Nantz it would be a far more pleasureable experience. I find I need to have the remote handy in case I need to quickly hit the mute button when they don't give the warning that he is coming on.

Surely you jest. Nantz and the Masters go together like peas & carrots. I would probably freak, if I didn't get to hear "Hello Friends." ....and "freakin" is a huge bitcch move.

[famousdavis]

OK, guys, it's one of, if not the BEST week of golf (contrary to the belief of all fuzzy foreigners opinions about the British Open). Post your thoughts and comments in here about anything "Masters." And, if you want to talk about sex WITH WOMEN, then that's OK, too.

I watched some of the Golf Channel last night and they showed Tiger at Augusta warming up and talking with other players. He looks a little heavier and has a semi-beard going. His arms look huge, even bigger than before. Tiger is going to win this tournament....mark my words.

[golfaholic]

Is TIger's press conference on today or tomorrow?

[famousdavis]

Is TIger's press conference on today or tomorrow?

It's on today at 1:30 p.m. EST. I hope the press shows him the respect he deserves. They'd be without a job if it wasn't for him. Let's face it, golf without Tiger has been boring.

[Pky6471]

It's on today at 1:30 p.m. EST. I hope the press shows him the respect he deserves. They'd be without a job if it wasn't for him. Let's face it, golf without Tiger has been boring.

It's all marketing... Tiger is only good for Nike and Tiger. I don't give a darn if he does not play anymore... People have a tendency to jump on a band wagon... It's all marketing tools.. I would enjoy watching AK than TW

[lorenzoinoc]

A real press conference with 220 reporters. During Tiger's practice round today he acknowledged every positive comment from the gallery with a thankyou. In the past he ignored everyone and everything.

So a combination of counseling and PR advice has turned him into friggin Mickelson. Just what we need. If I arranged the press conference, I'd have both Tiger and Nance up there explaining why they're such douches.

[mongrel]

I think the big news this week will be that Tiger is found in hotel room nailing Kelli Tihglman from behind . . . . .

If I were Tiger, I'd rather have Stephanie Sparks. And what's the difference between Standard Oil-Esso and the Golf Channel? With the former, the tiger's in the tank.

[famousdavis]

OK, guys, it's one of, if not the BEST week of golf (contrary to the belief of all fuzzy foreigners opinions about the British Open). Post your thoughts and comments in here about anything "Masters." And, if you want to talk about sex WITH WOMEN, then that's OK, too.

What do you think of the MP-33's? I just saw a near new set on Craigslist for $325. I'm offering the guy $200.

[BossGodwin]

It's on today at 1:30 p.m. EST. I hope the press shows him the respect he deserves. They'd be without a job if it wasn't for him. Let's face it, golf without Tiger has been boring.

For once I agree with you. Granite Tiger Woods is a POS when it comes to marriage but he is still one of the best golfers to watch and golf is much more exciting when Tiger is in the field.
If you had supermodels wanting to suck your c ock and sit on your face on a daily basis, don't you think it would be hard to resist.
I don't agree with what he did but I still like him as a golfer.
I want Phil Mickelson to win again. I'm waiting for John Daly to come back in the golf scene so I can watch some real interesting golf.

JG

[SoonerBS]

What do you think of the MP-33's? I just saw a near new set on Craigslist for $325. I'm offering the guy $200.

A few guys on here swear to them as being their favorite set of Mizunos, but I prefer the 67s better.

[SoonerBS]

It was the same old shite from Tiger today: "I've hurt a lot of people, blah, blah, blah," "I've done a lot of stupid things and owe everyone an apology, blah, blah, blah," "I've been through a humbling experience while in therapy where they strip away all the pride, blah, blah, blah." Where are the British tabloid reporters whenever you need them?

Here are the questions I want answered:

-- Tiger, which position do you prefer: missionary, doggystyle, or the b!tch on top?

-- Tiger, we heard things got really wild with you and your b!tches, did any of them ever strap on a dildo and take it to you?

-- Hey, Tiger, does Jamie Jungers have nice lungers?

-- Tiger, what brand of lubricant do you use and prefer?

-- Hey, Tiger, tell us the truth, what iron did Elin use whenever she worked your arse over?

-- Would you consider yourself a tit man or an arse man?

[famousdavis]

It was the same old shite from Tiger today: "I've hurt a lot of people, blah, blah, blah," "I've done a lot of stupid things and owe everyone an apology, blah, blah, blah," "I've been through a humbling experience while in therapy where they strip away all the pride, blah, blah, blah." Where are the British tabloid reporters whenever you need them?

Here are the questions I want answered:

-- Tiger, which position do you prefer: missionary, doggystyle, or the b!tch on top?

-- Tiger, we heard things got really wild with you and your b!tches, did any of them ever strap on a dildo and take it to you?

-- Hey, Tiger, does Jamie Jungers have nice lungers?

-- Tiger, what brand of lubricant do you use and prefer?

-- Hey, Tiger, tell us the truth, what iron did Elin use whenever she worked your arse over?

-- Would you consider yourself a tit man or an arse man?

Here are some additional questions:

-- Mr. Woods, would it be fair to say you qualify as a roughneck?

-- Is it best to drink Gatoraid before, during or after a golden shower?

--Did Rachel or any of the others give you shite about YE Yang?

-- Have you learned how to delete text messages on your new cell?

-- Do you and Elin ever giggle about any of this?

[lorenzoinoc]

If you had supermodels wanting to suck your c ock and sit on your face on a daily basis, don't you think it would be hard to resist.

JG

Yes....yes I do.

[famousdavis]

Yes....yes I do.

He's not talking about the black hooker you converse with down on Crenshaw.

[lorenzoinoc]

He's not talking about the black hooker you converse with down on Crenshaw.

I get that. By the way, she asked me to tell you that your kids are all doing well, but will need braces bigtime. She doesn't want them to go through life like you have, front teeth completely covering their lower lip.

[noshuz]

I get that. By the way, she asked me to tell you that your kids are all doing well, but will need braces bigtime. She doesn't want them to go through life like you have, front teeth completely covering their lower lip.

WTHell are you lookin at?.....

[oldplayer]

What do you think of the MP-33's? I just saw a near new set on Craigslist for $325. I'm offering the guy $200.

This is a bit of an over the top threadjack.
Offer him at least $275. Lowballing is a b!tchmove only used by selfish opportunists.

[Pky6471]

What do you think of the MP-33's? I just saw a near new set on Craigslist for $325. I'm offering the guy $200.

FamousD: are U running away from your Ping now? You turn yourself into another Lyle G?

[Home-slicer]

Here are some additional questions:

-- Mr. Woods, would it be fair to say you qualify as a roughneck?

-- Is it best to drink Gatoraid before, during or after a golden shower?

--Did Rachel or any of the others give you shite about YE Yang?

-- Have you learned how to delete text messages on your new cell?

-- Do you and Elin ever giggle about any of this?

Additional questions

--Did you ever pull out and yell "Fore!!!"
--Did you ever feel the need to hear "get in the hole!" during a session.
-- How come no Asian or black chicks?

[famousdavis]

This is a bit of an over the top threadjack.
Offer him at least $275. Lowballing is a b!tchmove only used by selfish opportunists.

It's called negotiating. Just because he listed something at $325 doesn't mean it's even close to being worth that much. I went on Ebay and the MP-33's aren't going for that much at all. My offer shouldn't be based on his price. It should be based on what I'm willing to pay for them. That is not lowballing. It is smart. I didn't become the greatest ballstriker in the world by being compulsive. It wasn't a threadjack. I know that Sooner likes Mizuno products and could provide expert advice. Since you participated in the so-called threadjack you should be ashamed. You thought it a threadjack whereas I simply asked one question. Oh, the horror!

[famousdavis]

FamousD: are U running away from your Ping now? You turn yourself into another Lyle G?

Lyle G? Who dat?

[oldplayer]

It's called negotiating. Just because he listed something at $325 doesn't mean it's even close to being worth that much. I went on Ebay and the MP-33's aren't going for that much at all. My offer shouldn't be based on his price. It should be based on what I'm willing to pay for them. That is not lowballing. It is smart. I didn't become the greatest ballstriker in the world by being compulsive. It wasn't a threadjack. I know that Sooner likes Mizuno products and could provide expert advice. Since you participated in the so-called threadjack you should be ashamed. You thought it a threadjack whereas I simply asked one question. Oh, the horror!

Stop justifying trying to take advantage of someone. They are worth $275 if they are in good condition. I presume you wouldn't buy worn out junk. He is not selling them on ebay but has listed them at a reasonable price. If you are going to negotiate be fair about it and do it with an attitude of fairness; not to see how low you can screw the guy for. It dosen't make you smart to act like some sort of coporate shark.

[Pky6471]

The famous Lyle G who is (was) a club builder... giving everyone shittttt about OEM clubs , later he went out and bought a set of Cally X-18 that he loved and a new TaylorMade putter ... amongst other things

[famousdavis]

Stop justifying trying to take advantage of someone. They are worth $275 if they are in good condition. I presume you wouldn't buy worn out junk. He is not selling them on ebay but has listed them at a reasonable price. If you are going to negotiate be fair about it and do it with an attitude of fairness; not to see how low you can screw the guy for. It dosen't make you smart to act like some sort of coporate shark.

OP, I'm sorry but you are just wrong here. I'm not trying to screw the guy out of anything. It's a free market out there and that's why he put the clubs on craigslist. He'd have an even bigger market if he put them on Ebay. If he doesn't like my offer he can hold on to them and hopefully sell them to someone else. If they are worth $275 then it stands to reason that someone will offer him that price. Further, how in the hell do you know what they are worth? Are you the official Mizuno pre-owned guru? They aren't worth $275 to me. I would feel like I paid too much for them if I offered that price. You're acting as if I'm the only one he can sell them to. It's not like I'm buying a penis shrinker.

[oldplayer]

OP, I'm sorry but you are just wrong here. I'm not trying to screw the guy out of anything. It's a free market out there and that's why he put the clubs on craigslist. He'd have an even bigger market if he put them on Ebay. If he doesn't like my offer he can hold on to them and hopefully sell them to someone else. If they are worth $275 then it stands to reason that someone will offer him that price. Further, how in the hell do you know what they are worth? Are you the official Mizuno pre-owned guru? They aren't worth $275 to me. I would feel like I paid too much for them if I offered that price. You're acting as if I'm the only one he can sell them to. It's not like I'm buying a penis shrinker.

I agree it's a free market and you are certainly free to offer whatever you wish, and he is free to reject it. What i was alluding to was your attitude. I have sold clubs and guys have tried lowballing. I have replied that I'm not so desperate to sell that I will give them away. Lowballing is a low act. As with any good ho I am indeed a bit of an ebay guru and have a pretty good idea of what is the market value of different models. If they are in good nick they are worth $250-$275. If they have sweet spot wear then they are worth under $200. Are they in 8 1/2 or 9/10 condition?

[famousdavis]

I agree it's a free market and you are certainly free to offer whatever you wish, and he is free to reject it. What i was alluding to was your attitude. I have sold clubs and guys have tried lowballing. I have replied that I'm not so desperate to sell that I will give them away. Lowballing is a low act. As with any good ho I am indeed a bit of an ebay guru and have a pretty good idea of what is the market value of different models. If they are in good nick they are worth $250-$275. If they have sweet spot wear then they are worth under $200. Are they is 8 1/2 or 9/10 condition?

OK, now I understand what you're talking about. I don't like people that do that either. I am not just throwing out some super lowball offer hoping that he's down on his luck and needs to sell them immediately. I'm throwing out an offer that I think is fair based on the model's age and condition. I also have to change the grips.

[oldplayer]

OK, now I understand what you're talking about. I don't like people that do that either. I am not just throwing out some super lowball offer hoping that he's down on his luck and needs to sell them immediately. I'm throwing out an offer that I think is fair based on the model's age and condition. I also have to change the grips.

Fair enough. BTW 33's are not the best model balde IMO. They go too high and are very harsh if hit a bit thin. My favorites are 29's. Have better lofts than the earlier models (48pw) and super soft feeling.

[SoonerBS]

Fair enough. BTW 33's are not the best model balde IMO. They go too high and are very harsh if hit a bit thin. My favorites are 29's. Have better lofts than the earlier models (48pw) and super soft feeling.

Even better than the 67s, OP?

[famousdavis]

Fair enough. BTW 33's are not the best model balde IMO. They go too high and are very harsh if hit a bit thin. My favorites are 29's. Have better lofts than the earlier models (48pw) and super soft feeling.

I once bought a new set of Mizuno MS-9's with a Dynamic Gold R300 shaft. One of the softest feeling forgings I've ever hit. Very small head with no offset. As usual, hit them great on the range but not so good on the course.

[oldplayer]

Even better than the 67s, OP?

It's a close call Sooner and each to his own but if I had to chose I'd go for the older models. The 29's just had something about them and are the softest and sweetest mizunos I've hit. Also I prefer blades with the slightly squarer toe.

[famousdavis]

It's a close call Sooner and each to his own but if I had to chose I'd go for the older models. The 29's just had something about them and are the softest and sweetest mizunos I've hit. Also I prefer blades with the slightly squarer toe.

The MP-29 was the choice amongst good players back in the mid-90's. It had stronger lofts than the MP-14 and less offset. It cost $200 more than the MP-14 as well. I have heard the same thing about the MP-33 ball flight being too high. That's the last thing I need.

[lorenzoinoc]

Stop justifying trying to take advantage of someone. They are worth $275 if they are in good condition. I presume you wouldn't buy worn out junk. He is not selling them on ebay but has listed them at a reasonable price. If you are going to negotiate be fair about it and do it with an attitude of fairness; not to see how low you can screw the guy for. It dosen't make you smart to act like some sort of coporate shark.

The psychology here is interesting. OP, you clearly identify with the person offered the low price, or, the victim as you see it. So you see yourself as a victim. And your defense is really a defense of yourself. So what might seem like compassion and concern for someone else is really resentment over your victimhood. Your feelings are clearly borne out of self interest. Even more paradoxical is that what you express as fairness is really just justification for feeling entitled to receive an expected price as opposed to what the market might bear. This has tones of entitlement and greed.

What I've explained here is the rationale for liberalism. It's selfishness. But the bearer will seldom see that, only fairness.

There's no insult in receiving a low offer. Only chagrin the market won't produce what you expect. I've fielded plenty of low offers in different situations. It's really not hard to just say no and hope for better, unless you're upset with yourself for having made a bad investment.

[famousdavis]

The psychology here is interesting. OP, you clearly identify with the person offered the low price, or, the victim as you see it. So you see yourself as a victim. And your defense is really a defense of yourself. So what might seem like compassion and concern for someone else is really resentment over your victimhood. Your feelings are clearly borne out of self interest. Even more paradoxical is that what you express as fairness is really just justification for feeling entitled to receive an expected price as opposed to what the market might bear. This has tones of entitlement and greed.

What I've explained here is the rationale for liberalism. It's selfishness. But the bearer will seldom see that, only fairness.

There's no insult in receiving a low offer. Only chagrin the market won't produce what you expect. I've fielded plenty of low offers in different situations. It's really not hard to just say no and hope for better, unless you're upset with yourself for having made a bad investment.

One of the most brilliant posts I've read to date. There is defintely a hint of socialism masked behind the use of the words "fair" and "low ball" in OP's initial statement. It's amazing how many people think this way. Talk to your average pinhead real estate agent.

Here's the situation: You're in the market for a new home. You've looked at 20 different homes ranging from $400k to $600k. You've finally found your dream home and it's priced at $550K. You ask your agent "what do you think we should offer?". The agent replies, "well, generally in this market you offer maybe $10K under asking price. That's fair and the seller won't be offended". At this point you should fire your agent. She should have done comparables from homes that have recently sold and then come up with a per square foot price. It may turn out that the home is way overpriced and your offer should be $450k based on the comparables. Selling price has nothing to do with what something is worth. If the buyer gets offended too phucking bad.

[Not a hacker]

For once I agree with you. Granite Tiger Woods is a POS when it comes to marriage but he is still one of the best golfers to watch and golf is much more exciting when Tiger is in the field.
If you had supermodels wanting to suck your c ock and sit on your face on a daily basis, don't you think it would be hard to resist.I don't agree with what he did but I still like him as a golfer.
I want Phil Mickelson to win again. I'm waiting for John Daly to come back in the golf scene so I can watch some real interesting golf.

JG

We have a resident mod here who resists this sort of thing, due to his faith in his Lord and Saviour. As a god botherer yourself, I am surprised by your apparent lack of self control.

[shoeinc]

What do you think of the MP-33's? I just saw a near new set on Craigslist for $325. I'm offering the guy $200.

i picked up a set last year that were great for ball striking and really reward your good shots ! have since moved to tp mb's

[SoonerBS]

What do you think of the MP-33's? I just saw a near new set on Craigslist for $325. I'm offering the guy $200.

FD, I have the MP-33s bagged currently because I have the grips off my 67s and am getting ready to pull the heads off them, spine align the shafts, and regrip them for this season. My MP-52s are awaiting some new Nippon 1150 shafts that are coming soon. So, the 33s are the only set I have available to play that are operational. That is why I NEED three sets of clubs. (Or, at least that is what I tell my wife.)

[poe4soul]

A real press conference with 220 reporters. During Tiger's practice round today he acknowledged every positive comment from the gallery with a thankyou. In the past he ignored everyone and everything.

So a combination of counseling and PR advice has turned him into friggin Mickelson. Just what we need. If I arranged the press conference, I'd have both Tiger and Nance up there explaining why they're such douches.

Agreed. The press conference should start with Nance's lips pressed firmly on tigers arse just like it is every event tiger is in the field.

[SoonerBS]

Agreed. The press conference should start with Nance's lips pressed firmly on tigers arse just like it is every event tiger is in the field.

Very astute observation . . . . .

[Not a hacker]

Agreed. The press conference should start with Nance's lips pressed firmly on tigers arse just like it is every event tiger is in the field.

Are you kidding? Never mind Tiger's arse, Nantz will be so far up Tiger he could have his lips pressed up against the back of Tiger's tonsils.

[oldplayer]

The psychology here is interesting. OP, you clearly identify with the person offered the low price, or, the victim as you see it. So you see yourself as a victim. And your defense is really a defense of yourself. So what might seem like compassion and concern for someone else is really resentment over your victimhood. Your feelings are clearly borne out of self interest. Even more paradoxical is that what you express as fairness is really just justification for feeling entitled to receive an expected price as opposed to what the market might bear. This has tones of entitlement and greed.

What I've explained here is the rationale for liberalism. It's selfishness. But the bearer will seldom see that, only fairness.

There's no insult in receiving a low offer. Only chagrin the market won't produce what you expect. I've fielded plenty of low offers in different situations. It's really not hard to just say no and hope for better, unless you're upset with yourself for having made a bad investment.

Thanks for the free therapy session Lorenzo. I appreciate your concern for me and my ability to understand my motives in a less than superficial way. I guess we are all victims and oppressors in one way or another, and I am as frail and imperfect as the next guy. As for self interest I am guilty as charged. Most of us live our lives that way and I'm sure they are not lining up at my door to give me any Nobel Prize for peace or altruism.
Suffice to say I try to be fair in my dealings with others and am happy to be corrected when necessary. I still feel that just because we live in a dog eat dog world is no excuse to join the pack. I know you are a reasonable man with a good intellect so I am happy to take on board your comments.

[BURNDOG]

hey sooner you big mizzy freak ya, what HCAP you playing off these days (weather permitting)?

[Kiwi Player]

hey sooner you big mizzy freak ya, what HCAP you playing off these days (weather permitting)?

Sooner doesn't believe in handicaps.

He's playing Dave off the stick. There's no other way for an Okie from Muskogee!

[BURNDOG]

so kiwi what your trying to say is that sooner plays off scratch and needs no use or advantage of the handicap system. interesting.

[Kiwi Player]

so kiwi what your trying to say is that sooner plays off scratch and needs no use or advantage of the handicap system. interesting.

No I'm not saying that.

In my experience most Kiwi's, OZ's, Brits etc join a club, get an official handicap, play in weekly club tournaments & competitions and hand in cards every week that keep their handicap current and relevant.

Many of our American friends seem to just play casual rounds at different courses and only get an official cap if they log onto some sort of online handicapping system. I could be wrong but that is the impression I get from reading many of the posts here.

Sooner is definitely not scratch. He shoots low 80's and hasn't yet broken 80 which would make him about a 10 handicap but he doesn't believe in handicaps and in fact considers them a b.itchmove.

[Horseballs]

No I'm not saying that.

In my experience most Kiwi's, OZ's, Brits etc join a club, get an official handicap, play in weekly club tournaments & competitions and hand in cards every week that keep their handicap current and relevant.

Many of our American friends seem to just play casual rounds at different courses and only get an official cap if they log onto some sort of online handicapping system. I could be wrong but that is the impression I get from reading many of the posts here.

Sooner is definitely not scratch. He shoots low 80's and hasn't yet broken 80 which would make him about a 10 handicap but he doesn't believe in handicaps and in fact considers them a b.itchmove.

Pretty close to accurate. The majority of US golfers don't belong to any association or keep a legitmate handicap. The majority of US golfers also couldn't be trusted to keep a cap or their own. Just from the guys I've been paired up with at public tracks, most don't really play by the rules. One mulligan per side, all OB as lateral, roll the ball in the rough, etc.
Just recently has the handicap system in the US been opened up to "virtual associations" where you can keep a legitimate cap online instead of belong to a brick and mortar club. Still doesn't solve the problem of people not knowing how to keep score.
Also, all our rounds are supposed to be posted for handicap purposes, not just comps.

[SoonerBS]

I belong to our newly revamped men's golf association at our course and my handicap officially came out last week at 11.2. Our association does our handicaps based on scores turned in and then they use the handicap for purposes of seeding us in tournaments throughout the year.

However, when big Dave and I meet up in a couple of weeks, we will play a straight up match play and we will finish our round to record and report our final scores. I usually play like shite whenever I get off my home course, but it's time for me to suck it up and play better . . . . .

[poe4soul]

I'm like you sooner. I rarely ask for strokes but will give them in a casual round. At events I don't care about net scores. The clubs should just flight the tournament and play off scratch. If you suck you loose just like any other sport. Could you see anyother sport where you do this? It would be like spotting runs in baseball or goals in hockey. Or maybe one team only gets two outs and the other gets three.

Maybe ok for a weekend round with the friends but not something for a serious event like your and dave's matchplay.

[BURNDOG]

No I'm not saying that.

In my experience most Kiwi's, OZ's, Brits etc join a club, get an official handicap, play in weekly club tournaments & competitions and hand in cards every week that keep their handicap current and relevant.

Many of our American friends seem to just play casual rounds at different courses and only get an official cap if they log onto some sort of online handicapping system. I could be wrong but that is the impression I get from reading many of the posts here.

Sooner is definitely not scratch. He shoots low 80's and hasn't yet broken 80 which would make him about a 10 handicap but he doesn't believe in handicaps and in fact considers them a b.itchmove.

i was jokig about the scratch thing. i belive the R & A handicap system to be decent enough and easy to follow. i cant understand why a casual golfer wouldnt want a handicap. doesnt make sense to me.

sooner,,
enlighten me as to why a handicap is a BM

[famousdavis]

OK, guys, it's one of, if not the BEST week of golf (contrary to the belief of all fuzzy foreigners opinions about the British Open). Post your thoughts and comments in here about anything "Masters." And, if you want to talk about sex WITH WOMEN, then that's OK, too.

I hope Tiger doesn't try to change his on course image too much. I liked the fist pumping. Maybe he could tone down the cursing and club slamming a little but I never had a problem with that in the first place. After watching him on the TGC last night I don't think he has any chance of winning. He looks a little out of shape and his swing looks different.

On another note, what's the deal with Freddy Couples? He looked great in his interview last night. I could have sworn that when I saw him 2 weeks ago in a tournament he looked 20 pounds heavier. He looks pretty healthy for 50. I've been told he doesn't drink so that may have something to do with it. I'm willing to be that Fred makes the top 10.

[lorenzoinoc]

Thanks for the free therapy session Lorenzo. I appreciate your concern for me and my ability to understand my motives in a less than superficial way. I guess we are all victims and oppressors in one way or another, and I am as frail and imperfect as the next guy. As for self interest I am guilty as charged. Most of us live our lives that way and I'm sure they are not lining up at my door to give me any Nobel Prize for peace or altruism.
Suffice to say I try to be fair in my dealings with others and am happy to be corrected when necessary. I still feel that just because we live in a dog eat dog world is no excuse to join the pack. I know you are a reasonable man with a good intellect so I am happy to take on board your comments.

OP, I left out the noble part of your motives. We all know your compassion is broader than your empathy. It's just interesting when compassion and empathy are both at play, to ask yourself where your motives are coming from. I include me and everyone in this. We all find it easy to glorify ourselves.

[edgey]

I'm like you sooner. I rarely ask for strokes but will give them in a casual round. At events I don't care about net scores. The clubs should just flight the tournament and play off scratch. If you suck you loose just like any other sport. Could you see anyother sport where you do this? It would be like spotting runs in baseball or goals in hockey. Or maybe one team only gets two outs and the other gets three.

Maybe ok for a weekend round with the friends but not something for a serious event like your and dave's matchplay.

Onef the greatest things that seperates golf from all the other sports is the handicap system. It allows golfers of all standards the chance to play against each other and compete on an even playing field. Golf in the UK is underpinned by the fantastic CONGU handicapping system.

Shite without handicaps my game with BURNDOG would have been just plain silly as opposed to the GR legend is has become.

Edgey

[famousdavis]

OP, I left out the noble part of your motives. We all know your compassion is broader than your empathy. It's just interesting when compassion and empathy are both at play, to ask yourself where your motives are coming from. I include me and everyone in this. We all find it easy to glorify ourselves.

Update on the Mizuno MP-33's. As you know, the guy posted the clubs on Craigslist for $325 and included one photo. He said that they were basically new and he had played them for two 9-hole rounds. I originally offered him $200 and he came back with $250. I told him I'd go up to $215 but that he'd need to bring them to my work. When I took a look at the photo again I noticed that the grips were not original to the set. I sent an email asking about this and he replied that he had bought them at an estate sale and that he doesn't know why they were replaced. I call this lying by omission. His ad gave the impression that he was the original owner and had only played them twice. I'm sending him back an e-mail indicating that the offer is now $185 because I'll need to replace the grips and I don't know what was done to them prior to his ownership. And to think that OP was telling me to treat him fair!!

[poe4soul]

Onef the greatest things that seperates golf from all the other sports is the handicap system. It allows golfers of all standards the chance to play against each other and compete on an even playing field. Golf in the UK is underpinned by the fantastic CONGU handicapping system.

Shite without handicaps my game with BURNDOG would have been just plain silly as opposed to the GR legend is has become.

Edgey

Agreed and said that. But here's the distinction, "Maybe ok for a weekend round with the friends but not something for a serious event like your and dave's matchplay." Your match is a legend in your own mind but that's about all....

I would much rather play in an event that is flighted and played straight up then to be taken by some single digit capper reporting to have a much higher handicap. I'm not talking a club event were you know your fellow competitors. I'm talking about open events. Don't give me our system is better crap. Cheaters are cheaters and it happens everywhere.

Many other sports do this on a social levels. Like playing 3 on 4 or spotting points, etc. But it doesn't happen in competitions. You enter the level you can compete at then go one on one. No spreads, no strokes, just you against another or the field. At some point you have to man up and play without the crutch....

[daveperkins]

You enter the level you can compete at then go one on one. No spreads, no strokes, just you against another or the field. At some point you have to man up and play without the crutch....

Hear hear.

My favorite matches have always been against people of exactly my skill level or slightly above. I tend to play up to the competition. I don't want strokes.

[Not a hacker]

Pretty close to accurate. The majority of US golfers don't belong to any association or keep a legitmate handicap. The majority of US golfers also couldn't be trusted to keep a cap or their own. Just from the guys I've been paired up with at public tracks, most don't really play by the rules. One mulligan per side, all OB as lateral, roll the ball in the rough, etc. Just recently has the handicap system in the US been opened up to "virtual associations" where you can keep a legitimate cap online instead of belong to a brick and mortar club. Still doesn't solve the problem of people not knowing how to keep score.
Also, all our rounds are supposed to be posted for handicap purposes, not just comps.

So you're saying Judge Smails and Bushwood Country Club are pretty much representative of the wider golfing community in America?
"Don't count that, I was interfered with" "Why don't you improve your lie" "Yes, winter rules(kicking ball out onto fairway)"

[SoonerBS]

So you're saying Judge Smails and Bushwood Country Club are pretty much representative of the wider golfing community in America?
"Don't count that, I was interfered with" "Why don't you improve your lie" "Yes, winter rules(kicking ball out onto fairway)"

Very nice . . . . .

[Not a hacker]

Agreed and said that. But here's the distinction, "Maybe ok for a weekend round with the friends but not something for a serious event like your and dave's matchplay." Your match is a legend in your own mind but that's about all....

I would much rather play in an event that is flighted and played straight up then to be taken by some single digit capper reporting to have a much higher handicap. I'm not talking a club event were you know your fellow competitors. I'm talking about open events. Don't give me our system is better crap. Cheaters are cheaters and it happens everywhere.

Many other sports do this on a social levels. Like playing 3 on 4 or spotting points, etc. But it doesn't happen in competitions. You enter the level you can compete at then go one on one. No spreads, no strokes, just you against another or the field. At some point you have to man up and play without the crutch....

Poe, I think Edgey's argument is fundamentally sound, in theory. But as you have pointed out, what is intended in theory is rarely the end result when you add human nature into the equation. In Oz, there are always enough handicap cheats at any club to ruin the spirit of the handciap system. I have docmuented the exploits of our bandits numerous times, adn they are the norm not the exception.

Handicaps, when used correctly by golfers of integrity (of which I would say are the vast majority), allow all players to compete on a level playing field and make the game much more fun. But unfortunately the small minority of dishonest golfers, who see handicaps as a means to fleece the rest of the membership, ruin it for everyone.

The fundamental problem with handicaps is the same as the fundamental problem with all good ideas. There will always be a criminal element of society ot there trying to find a way to abuse the system for personal gain.

Personally, I prefer to play in straight up scratch events which I have no conceiveable chance of winning, than to play in handicap events which are open to abuse.

[daveperkins]

Kim ... spent all last night, will spend a good part of today and tonight, spending his winnings on booze and hookers).

and wasting the rest of it, as they say...

[12sandwich]

The psychology here is interesting. OP, you clearly identify with a low offer. Only chagrin the market won't produce what you expect. I've fielded plenty of low offers in different situations. It's really not hard to just say no and hope for better, unless you're upset with yourself for having made a bad investment.

My Dad used to say, Never chop there legs from under them, Son. But I could be sympathetic to some kids need, who was on the golf team, needing something. Or a lot of lawnmowing more

[Horseballs]

So you're saying Judge Smails and Bushwood Country Club are pretty much representative of the wider golfing community in America?
"Don't count that, I was interfered with" "Why don't you improve your lie" "Yes, winter rules(kicking ball out onto fairway)"

Yeah, that's been my experience. It's worse though. Smails knew the rules and made a conscious decision to break them. Most muni golfers in the US think they are playing by the rules when they take a mully per side, kick a ball from under a tree, Kenny Perry a lie in the rough, drop a ball in the fairway after hitting OB (without taking a stroke), taking 5 foot gimmes, etc.

[daveperkins]

If I were Tiger, I'd rather have Stephanie Sparks. And what's the difference between Standard Oil-Esso and the Golf Channel? With the former, the tiger's in the tank.

ditto Steph Sparks. Not sure what it is, but it certainly is... :-)

[daveperkins]

I suppose there is plenty to like about this quaint little cracker arse invitational, but I've dragged myself out of bed at ungodly hours only to watch the Shark fold like a cheap suit too many tmes to call this my favourite tournament.

I loved Faldo in Norman's ear that day.. "don't let the bassterds get ya down" he says.. Norman is thinking "it's not them, its YOU, ya bassterd!"

[lorenzoinoc]

ditto Steph Sparks. Not sure what it is, but it certainly is... :-)

Someone once posted a poll entitled Would You Bang Stephanie Sparks?, but the mods locked it down, so proceed cautiously. I later figured out SS is Pingman 360's mom.

[famousdavis]

Poe, I think Edgey's argument is fundamentally sound, in theory. But as you have pointed out, what is intended in theory is rarely the end result when you add human nature into the equation. In Oz, there are always enough handicap cheats at any club to ruin the spirit of the handciap system. I have docmuented the exploits of our bandits numerous times, adn they are the norm not the exception.

Handicaps, when used correctly by golfers of integrity (of which I would say are the vast majority), allow all players to compete on a level playing field and make the game much more fun. But unfortunately the small minority of dishonest golfers, who see handicaps as a means to fleece the rest of the membership, ruin it for everyone.

The fundamental problem with handicaps is the same as the fundamental problem with all good ideas. There will always be a criminal element of society ot there trying to find a way to abuse the system for personal gain.

Personally, I prefer to play in straight up scratch events which I have no conceiveable chance of winning, than to play in handicap events which are open to abuse.

This brings up an interesting topic. Have you ever met anyone who admitted to having an inflated handicap? I think it would be just as taxing to find someone who admits to being a bad driver. It's always everyone else that's doing it. It makes sense that handicappers in the range of 10-18 are going to win the most tournaments and occassionally do very well in a skins game. I play with a guy who's a 14 handicap that I've seen shoot 98 and I've also seen him shoot 78. If you're a low handicap those drastically different scores aren't possible.

[poe4soul]

Poe, I think Edgey's argument is fundamentally sound, in theory. But as you have pointed out, what is intended in theory is rarely the end result when you add human nature into the equation. In Oz, there are always enough handicap cheats at any club to ruin the spirit of the handciap system. I have docmuented the exploits of our bandits numerous times, adn they are the norm not the exception.

Handicaps, when used correctly by golfers of integrity (of which I would say are the vast majority), allow all players to compete on a level playing field and make the game much more fun. But unfortunately the small minority of dishonest golfers, who see handicaps as a means to fleece the rest of the membership, ruin it for everyone.

The fundamental problem with handicaps is the same as the fundamental problem with all good ideas. There will always be a criminal element of society ot there trying to find a way to abuse the system for personal gain.

Personally, I prefer to play in straight up scratch events which I have no conceivable chance of winning, than to play in handicap events which are open to abuse.

I conceded to the weekend social round is appropriate for handicaps. I do it all the time with friends and they range from scratch golfers to my wife at a mid 20's HC. We play from different tees and all is fun. None of the have an inflated handicap and it works out fine. It's similar to the weekend pick up game at the park. But if you're talking an event, especially an open event, then I don't care for net scores. They are rarely given to a low capper and is in my opinion charity or money/prize is given to cheaters. In an open event the course is usually set up pretty tough and I rarely post a score that is at my HC let alone many strokes below. It is that way for most players. I guess you could have an "on" day but it should be the exception. When you look at the net winners score and they've never or maybe once in 20 rounds post a score near their winning score they should be disqualified from the net event. If this happens more than once they should be banned from net competitions. Don't know if it's fair but it's my experience and it's akin to hustlers.

[lorenzoinoc]

I haven't played in a handicap adjusted event in several years. Cheaters prosper in those. When there's money at stake self-policing never works.

[Horseballs]

I conceded to the weekend social round is appropriate for handicaps. I do it all the time with friends and they range from scratch golfers to my wife at a mid 20's HC. We play from different tees and all is fun. None of the have an inflated handicap and it works out fine. It's similar to the weekend pick up game at the park. But if you're talking an event, especially an open event, then I don't care for net scores. They are rarely given to a low capper and is in my opinion charity or money/prize is given to cheaters. In an open event the course is usually set up pretty tough and I rarely post a score that is at my HC let alone many strokes below. It is that way for most players. I guess you could have an "on" day but it should be the exception. When you look at the net winners score and they've never or maybe once in 20 rounds post a score near their winning score they should be disqualified from the net event. If this happens more than once they should be banned from net competitions. Don't know if it's fair but it's my experience and it's akin to hustlers.

I play in handicap adjusted events all the time, and it's true, the overall net winner is not usually anyone under a 10. My course has a handicap committe that looks at tournament scores throughout the past 12 months. Certain sandbagging pieces of shite have had additional strokes added. You should hear them squeal.
It sucks for me because I'm in that range where I can't win gross with any regularity and I can't beat the baggers.

[SoonerBS]

Augusta chairman Payne has stern words for Woods


Augusta National chairman Billy Payne used his annual news conference Wednesday to express his displeasure with four-time Masters champion Tiger Woods. "He disappointed all of us, and more importantly, our kids and our grand kids," Payne said.

Helen Ross, PGATOUR.COM Chief of Correspondents

AUGUSTA, Ga. -- In his annual news conference on Wednesday, Augusta National chairman Billy Payne took the unprecedented step of chastising the game's No. 1 player, Tiger Woods, for the recent revelations about his personal life.

At the end of a prepared statement before he fielded questions from reporters, Payne made clear his displeasure about Woods' admission of serial infidelity that led to a 45-day stint in rehab and has tarnished his previously squeaky-clean image.

"It is not simply the degree of his conduct that is so egregious here; it is the fact that he disappointed all of us, and more importantly, our kids and our grand kids," Payne said. "Our hero did not live up to the expectations of the role model we saw for our children."

Woods, a four-time Masters champion, will play this week at Augusta National for the first time since the scandal broke on Thanksgiving night when he crashed his SUV outside his Orlando home. Within days, news reports of multiple affairs surfaced amid a steady stream of salacious details.

Woods apologized for what he called "transgressions" on his web site on Dec. 2, then went into seclusion and eventually rehab. His first public comments about the scandal came in February when he read a 15-minute prepared statement in the clubhouse at TPC Sawgrass.

At that point, Woods said he would be taking an indefinite break from the game. But he announced three weeks ago that he would return to competition at the Masters and Woods has come to Augusta National several times in the interim to prepare.

His opening tee shot at 1:42 p.m. on Thursday will mark Woods' first in competition in five months. He will play with K.J. Choi and Matt Kuchar in the first two rounds.

"We are not unaware of the significance of this week to a very special player, Tiger Woods -- a man who in a brief 13 years clearly and emphatically proclaimed and proved his game to be worthy of the likes of Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer," Payne said.

"As he ascended in our rankings of the world's great golfers, he became an example to our kids that success is directly attributable to hard work and effort. But as he now says himself, he forgot in the process to remember that with fame and fortune comes responsibility, not invisibility."

Payne's surprisingly candid comments on Wednesday were carefully worded and delivered in a forum normally reserved for discussion of changes to the Augusta National and the club's charitable endeavors.

Payne declined to expand on other questions about Woods, saying only that security issues have been addressed and that the world No. 1 did attend Tuesday's Champions Dinner. He also noted that he's not worried about the season's first major being overshadowed by a single player.

"We are very secure in who we are, and the Masters has almost now a 74-year history," Payne said. "We just kind of do things our way. We are not threatened by other big news stories or things like that."

Payne politely refused to say whether Woods made a statement or apologized to the other Masters champions at Tuesday's festivities. Asked how the world No. 1 was received, the chairman again demurred, noting the mood is "always great" at the dinner, "always, always."

"He was at the Champions Dinner and yes, I had a conversation with him," Payne said. "But I don't want to go into detail about what it was."

Payne said he is hopeful Woods and his fans can move forward. His behavior off the course, though, may now be more career-defining than the miraculous shots Woods always seems to hit or the tournaments he will end up winning.

"Certainly his future will never again be measured only by his performance against par; but measured by the sincerity of his efforts to change," Payne said. "I hope he now realizes that every kid he passes on the course wants his swing, but would settle for his smile.

"I hope he can come to understand that life's greatest rewards are reserved for those who bring joy to the lives of other people. We at Augusta hope and pray that our great champion will begin his new life here tomorrow in a positive, hopeful and constructive manner, but this time, with a significant difference from the past.

"This year, it will not be just for him, but for all of us, who believe in second chances."

[famousdavis]

Augusta chairman Payne has stern words for Woods


Augusta National chairman Billy Payne used his annual news conference Wednesday to express his displeasure with four-time Masters champion Tiger Woods. "He disappointed all of us, and more importantly, our kids and our grand kids," Payne said.

Helen Ross, PGATOUR.COM Chief of Correspondents

AUGUSTA, Ga. -- In his annual news conference on Wednesday, Augusta National chairman Billy Payne took the unprecedented step of chastising the game's No. 1 player, Tiger Woods, for the recent revelations about his personal life.

At the end of a prepared statement before he fielded questions from reporters, Payne made clear his displeasure about Woods' admission of serial infidelity that led to a 45-day stint in rehab and has tarnished his previously squeaky-clean image.

"It is not simply the degree of his conduct that is so egregious here; it is the fact that he disappointed all of us, and more importantly, our kids and our grand kids," Payne said. "Our hero did not live up to the expectations of the role model we saw for our children."

Woods, a four-time Masters champion, will play this week at Augusta National for the first time since the scandal broke on Thanksgiving night when he crashed his SUV outside his Orlando home. Within days, news reports of multiple affairs surfaced amid a steady stream of salacious details.

Woods apologized for what he called "transgressions" on his web site on Dec. 2, then went into seclusion and eventually rehab. His first public comments about the scandal came in February when he read a 15-minute prepared statement in the clubhouse at TPC Sawgrass.

At that point, Woods said he would be taking an indefinite break from the game. But he announced three weeks ago that he would return to competition at the Masters and Woods has come to Augusta National several times in the interim to prepare.

His opening tee shot at 1:42 p.m. on Thursday will mark Woods' first in competition in five months. He will play with K.J. Choi and Matt Kuchar in the first two rounds.

"We are not unaware of the significance of this week to a very special player, Tiger Woods -- a man who in a brief 13 years clearly and emphatically proclaimed and proved his game to be worthy of the likes of Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer," Payne said.

"As he ascended in our rankings of the world's great golfers, he became an example to our kids that success is directly attributable to hard work and effort. But as he now says himself, he forgot in the process to remember that with fame and fortune comes responsibility, not invisibility."

Payne's surprisingly candid comments on Wednesday were carefully worded and delivered in a forum normally reserved for discussion of changes to the Augusta National and the club's charitable endeavors.

Payne declined to expand on other questions about Woods, saying only that security issues have been addressed and that the world No. 1 did attend Tuesday's Champions Dinner. He also noted that he's not worried about the season's first major being overshadowed by a single player.

"We are very secure in who we are, and the Masters has almost now a 74-year history," Payne said. "We just kind of do things our way. We are not threatened by other big news stories or things like that."

Payne politely refused to say whether Woods made a statement or apologized to the other Masters champions at Tuesday's festivities. Asked how the world No. 1 was received, the chairman again demurred, noting the mood is "always great" at the dinner, "always, always."

"He was at the Champions Dinner and yes, I had a conversation with him," Payne said. "But I don't want to go into detail about what it was."

Payne said he is hopeful Woods and his fans can move forward. His behavior off the course, though, may now be more career-defining than the miraculous shots Woods always seems to hit or the tournaments he will end up winning.

"Certainly his future will never again be measured only by his performance against par; but measured by the sincerity of his efforts to change," Payne said. "I hope he now realizes that every kid he passes on the course wants his swing, but would settle for his smile.

"I hope he can come to understand that life's greatest rewards are reserved for those who bring joy to the lives of other people. We at Augusta hope and pray that our great champion will begin his new life here tomorrow in a positive, hopeful and constructive manner, but this time, with a significant difference from the past.

"This year, it will not be just for him, but for all of us, who believe in second chances."

I think he did the right thing. They are letting Tiger play but they want the world to know that they're not happy with what he did. I like it. It's better than turning the other cheek.

[spanqdoggie]

"Eldrick the Retard" now has men older, wiser, and much richer than him, basically calling him a jackass and a retard publicly; accolades to the Master's men!!!

I think the whole experience has shocked Eldrick, and he is of the age to perhaps grow up...

I think he will be walking to the sidelines and giving balls away, or a glove, etc. after that ass kicking...

Damn, I hate Eldrick!

As far as Elin is concerned, maybe they are trying to do a Bill Clinton marriage arrangement sort of thing; still married, but not really.

[lorenzoinoc]

Let's be clear. This is Augusta National giving Tiger a very severe ass-kicking. They're saying you've tainted and embarassed the entire world of golf, we're ashamed of who you are, you've been a complete dick as a player to the fans, start smiling at the kids and do it again and you won't be back, we don't care who you are.

How completely humiliating to have to address this in public, for both Tiger and Augusta.

[daveperkins]

It's a close call Sooner and each to his own but if I had to chose I'd go for the older models. The 29's just had something about them and are the softest and sweetest mizunos I've hit. Also I prefer blades with the slightly squarer toe.

I have a set of MP14s but the only one of them I can hit well is the one that has a different shaft, the one iron in S300. That is a sweet club, even off the ground.

2-PW are in Rifle 6.5, too much shaft for me.

Are the heads worth setting up properly with PX6.0? Or are later Mizzies softer and nicer...?

[Not a hacker]

Yeah, that's been my experience. It's worse though. Smails knew the rules and made a conscious decision to break them. Most muni golfers in the US think they are playing by the rules when they take a mully per side, kick a ball from under a tree, Kenny Perry a lie in the rough, drop a ball in the fairway after hitting OB (without taking a stroke), taking 5 foot gimmes, etc.

Sad but true. At my club I constantly see high cappers inadvertantly breaking the rules. It is usually in the form of an incorrect drop. The best example I can think of at my course is an ornamental garden which leads into a hazard. If the choppers hit their ball into the garden but short of the hazard, they rightfully give themselves free relief. But the POS hackers then use line of sight to go back far enough to clear the trees in the hazard, instead of the correct nearest point of relief then one club length. This makes the second shot completely different and the hole a hell of alot easier. Preferring their lie in the rough is also a favourite amongst choppers, which I would estimate is at least a 2 shot advantage over 18 holes, but probably worth 4 or more to choppers who have no skill and can't hit off of bad lies.

[Not a hacker]

Augusta chairman Payne has stern words for Woods


Augusta National chairman Billy Payne used his annual news conference Wednesday to express his displeasure with four-time Masters champion Tiger Woods. "He disappointed all of us, and more importantly, our kids and our grand kids," Payne said.

Helen Ross, PGATOUR.COM Chief of Correspondents

AUGUSTA, Ga. -- In his annual news conference on Wednesday, Augusta National chairman Billy Payne took the unprecedented step of chastising the game's No. 1 player, Tiger Woods, for the recent revelations about his personal life.

At the end of a prepared statement before he fielded questions from reporters, Payne made clear his displeasure about Woods' admission of serial infidelity that led to a 45-day stint in rehab and has tarnished his previously squeaky-clean image.

"It is not simply the degree of his conduct that is so egregious here; it is the fact that he disappointed all of us, and more importantly, our kids and our grand kids," Payne said. "Our hero did not live up to the expectations of the role model we saw for our children."

Woods, a four-time Masters champion, will play this week at Augusta National for the first time since the scandal broke on Thanksgiving night when he crashed his SUV outside his Orlando home. Within days, news reports of multiple affairs surfaced amid a steady stream of salacious details.

Woods apologized for what he called "transgressions" on his web site on Dec. 2, then went into seclusion and eventually rehab. His first public comments about the scandal came in February when he read a 15-minute prepared statement in the clubhouse at TPC Sawgrass.

At that point, Woods said he would be taking an indefinite break from the game. But he announced three weeks ago that he would return to competition at the Masters and Woods has come to Augusta National several times in the interim to prepare.

His opening tee shot at 1:42 p.m. on Thursday will mark Woods' first in competition in five months. He will play with K.J. Choi and Matt Kuchar in the first two rounds.

"We are not unaware of the significance of this week to a very special player, Tiger Woods -- a man who in a brief 13 years clearly and emphatically proclaimed and proved his game to be worthy of the likes of Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer," Payne said.

"As he ascended in our rankings of the world's great golfers, he became an example to our kids that success is directly attributable to hard work and effort. But as he now says himself, he forgot in the process to remember that with fame and fortune comes responsibility, not invisibility."

Payne's surprisingly candid comments on Wednesday were carefully worded and delivered in a forum normally reserved for discussion of changes to the Augusta National and the club's charitable endeavors.

Payne declined to expand on other questions about Woods, saying only that security issues have been addressed and that the world No. 1 did attend Tuesday's Champions Dinner. He also noted that he's not worried about the season's first major being overshadowed by a single player.

"We are very secure in who we are, and the Masters has almost now a 74-year history," Payne said. "We just kind of do things our way. We are not threatened by other big news stories or things like that."

Payne politely refused to say whether Woods made a statement or apologized to the other Masters champions at Tuesday's festivities. Asked how the world No. 1 was received, the chairman again demurred, noting the mood is "always great" at the dinner, "always, always."

"He was at the Champions Dinner and yes, I had a conversation with him," Payne said. "But I don't want to go into detail about what it was."
Payne said he is hopeful Woods and his fans can move forward. His behavior off the course, though, may now be more career-defining than the miraculous shots Woods always seems to hit or the tournaments he will end up winning.

"Certainly his future will never again be measured only by his performance against par; but measured by the sincerity of his efforts to change," Payne said. "I hope he now realizes that every kid he passes on the course wants his swing, but would settle for his smile.

"I hope he can come to understand that life's greatest rewards are reserved for those who bring joy to the lives of other people. We at Augusta hope and pray that our great champion will begin his new life here tomorrow in a positive, hopeful and constructive manner, but this time, with a significant difference from the past.

"This year, it will not be just for him, but for all of us, who believe in second chances."

I'd bet the conversation would have been along the lines of the michael Richards "30 years ago we'd have had you strung upside down with a fork up your arse" tirade. This press conference sounds like the mutterings of a cracker arse good ol boy.