Master's of Long Drive Competition April 10

[BossGodwin]

Hey guys, I will be competing this weekend in a long drive competitions with my clubs that ya'll gave me hell about ...MOI Intruder 6.5* with a House of Forged Whup n Shaft LT XXX 50". Hopefully I can get a video from this weekend and post it on youtube or something for you guys to see. Then you can see what 290 and pretty muscular is...LOL Wish me luck and hopefully I can come home with the trophy. Sorry I haven't been around much to enjoy ya'lls company. I have been pretty busy setting up the company and training for the competition.

Jason Godwin
Philippians 4:13
"I do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
"Yes I am a Christian and I will not be moved" (JG)

[famousdavis]

Hey guys, I will be competing this weekend in a long drive competitions with my clubs that ya'll gave me hell about ...MOI Intruder 6.5* with a House of Forged Whup n Shaft LT XXX 50". Hopefully I can get a video from this weekend and post it on youtube or something for you guys to see. Then you can see what 290 and pretty muscular is...LOL Wish me luck and hopefully I can come home with the trophy. Sorry I haven't been around much to enjoy ya'lls company. I have been pretty busy setting up the company and training for the competition.

Jason Godwin
Philippians 4:13
"I do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
"Yes I am a Christian and I will not be moved" (JG)

Is the miniature golf tournament right after the long drive competition?

[BossGodwin]

No but it would be fun. lol We'll probably go out to the bars and get drunk after the competition. Hot chick, beer, and long drive. Doesn't get much better than that.

JG

[famousdavis]

No but it would be fun. lol We'll probably go out to the bars and get drunk after the competition. Hot chick, beer, and long drive. Doesn't get much better than that.

JG

Can't argue there. Good luck.

[daveperkins]

No but it would be fun. lol We'll probably go out to the bars and get drunk after the competition. Hot chick, beer, and long drive. Doesn't get much better than that.

JG

BossHogwin,

You have created a perfect mental picture of the typical GR member's activities.

YOu left out the 'wishful thinking' part, of course, but heck, so do we...

all seriousness aside, best o'luck and let us know how you did.

signed,

GR's other 290 pounder, sans muscles.

[Horseballs]

No but it would be fun. lol We'll probably go out to the bars and get drunk after the competition. Hot chick, beer, and long drive. Doesn't get much better than that.

JG

As long as you are doing all things through Christ, I have no problem with any of this.
When you are pounding beers and chasing skirts, do you ever wonder "what would Jesus do?"

[edgey]

Best of luck Boss

Edgey

PS I dont think that asking for help from a mythical historical figure in whose name more people have been murdered than Hitler, Stalin and Mao put together will make an iota of difference.

[jearliff]

As long as you are doing all things through Christ, I have no problem with any of this.
When you are pounding beers and chasing skirts, do you ever wonder "what would Jesus do?"

I have to believe ol' JC would have no problem picking up women, if he were so inclined. With the long flowing hair like Bjorn Borg and the never-ending supply of wine, my bet is he'd be pretty popular with the ladies.

[Horseballs]

I have to believe ol' JC would have no problem picking up women, if he were so inclined. With the long flowing hair like Bjorn Borg and the never-ending supply of wine, my bet is he'd be pretty popular with the ladies.

Pretty nice abs too.

[famousdavis]

Best of luck Boss

Edgey

PS I dont think that asking for help from a mythical historical figure in whose name more people have been murdered than Hitler, Stalin and Mao put together will make an iota of difference.

Don't forget crocodiles. Crocodiles murder a lot of people too.

[noshuz]

Don't forget crocodiles. Crocodiles murder a lot of people too.

More people get killed from hippos every year than any other varmit.....

[daveperkins]

Best of luck Boss

Edgey

PS I dont think that asking for help from a mythical historical figure in whose name more people have been murdered than Hitler, Stalin and Mao put together will make an iota of difference.

overlooking the massive hostility toward the world's largest charitable givers over the past two thousand years, I challenge your math.. Hitler, Stalin and Mao put together eliminated well over 100 million people.

Citations, please, for Christianity's mass murders which add up to more than that. And if you're going to be fair, all NON christian mass murders over the past two thousand years, not just the twentieth century, should be counted. This includes, of course, murders OF Christians which are still going on today in places like Nigeria and the Philippines, and also the mass murders which have nothing to do with Christianity, which are most of them, historically speaking.

addendum-- He is genuinely historical, as is mentioned in several Roman historical works over several centuries. This means he is NOT mythical. It is self-contradiction to claim both.

[Home-slicer]

overlooking the massive hostility toward the world's largest charitable givers over the past two thousand years, I challenge your math.. Hitler, Stalin and Mao put together eliminated well over 100 million people.

Citations, please, for Christianity's mass murders which add up to more than that. And if you're going to be fair, all NON christian mass murders over the past two thousand years, not just the twentieth century, should be counted. This includes, of course, murders OF Christians which are still going on today in places like Nigeria and the Philippines, and also the mass murders which have nothing to do with Christianity, which are most of them, historically speaking.

addendum-- He is genuinely historical, as is mentioned in several Roman historical works over several centuries. This means he is NOT mythical. It is self-contradiction to claim both.

Other than the crusades and the occasional abortion clinic, when is it that people killed in the name of Jesus? Not a joke. I'm seriously asking. And how many people were killed in the crusades for that matter?

[Horseballs]

overlooking the massive hostility toward the world's largest charitable givers over the past two thousand years, I challenge your math.. Hitler, Stalin and Mao put together eliminated well over 100 million people.

Citations, please, for Christianity's mass murders which add up to more than that. And if you're going to be fair, all NON christian mass murders over the past two thousand years, not just the twentieth century, should be counted. This includes, of course, murders OF Christians which are still going on today in places like Nigeria and the Philippines, and also the mass murders which have nothing to do with Christianity, which are most of them, historically speaking.

addendum-- He is genuinely historical, as is mentioned in several Roman historical works over several centuries. This means he is NOT mythical. It is self-contradiction to claim both.

Crusades were pretty brutal. A lot of Native Americans were conquered in the name of religion. I don't have any numbers. All religions have advocated killing people. The one that kills the most wins and gets to send its followers to heaven (or Shangrila, or some awesome reincarnation like a double-cocked dog). This is as irrefutable as anything else.

[famousdavis]

War is fought over land or the assets associated with the land. People blame religion but it's usually land or resources that cause war. What makes you more mad...if your neighbor sacrifices a chicken due to his religion or if he builds a shed over your property line. Answer: Shed over the property line.

[daveperkins]

Crusades were pretty brutal. A lot of Native Americans were conquered in the name of religion. I don't have any numbers. All religions have advocated killing people. The one that kills the most wins and gets to send its followers to heaven (or Shangrila, or some awesome reincarnation like a double-cocked dog). This is as irrefutable as anything else.

There is no doubt 'a lot of people' have been killed in the name of' Christianity. There no doubt there were, and are, many Christian hypocrites, as there are many hypocrites in any situation where moral high ground is claimed.

I insist that there is no historical equivalent to the mass murderers of the political left in the 20th century, and that this, not the murders of Christianity, is by far the worst blight on the history of humanity.

Not to mention that, besides a half dozen nutcases trying to kill or killing abortionists over the past twenty years, there just ain't much to show for Christian mass murders since the Inquisition, which did not last that long, historically speaking.

And genuine historical inquiry will usually show that Christianity was used as a reason, but was not the primary reason, for must such periods or events. Conquering America was about resources, as any student of the Spanish court can tell you. Renaissance European 'smug superiority' over native races may have had a nominally Christian element, but that can hardly be the real reason for massive worldwide hunting for gold and silver and such.

Stalin-- 30 million. Mao-- 70 million. Hitler -- almost 10 million. Pol Pot-- 2 million. Ceaucescu-- as many Romanians as he could.

Abortion doctor killers -- half dozen or so. Maybe a dozen.

Crusades -- brutal, but on both sides. Saladin does get the nod for moral superiority, but it's a rough go for both sides on that score.

Oh yeah, and the crusades ended 700 years ago. Pol Pot and Ceaucescu were still piling up the skulls in the 1970s and 1980s in the name of political leftism/Marxism. And the muslims are still doing it, with not a lot of difference in ideology albeit religulous overtones to it.

p.s. as for numbers, bear in mind that population of the entire Roman Empire in the first century was only 60 million. That includes most of Europe, north Africa and countries that were later western satellites of the Soviet Union.

I seriously doubt all of organized Christianity in all its history actually murdered more than five million r so, and it was probably less than that. This does not count, of course, individual despots or small scale killings as part of local warfare, which also would have claimed nominal Christianity as one of its motives in dealing with the unfaithful.... like Jews, who were killed in this manner off and on for millenia, sometimes by Christians and sometimes not.

Christianity as a political group deserves what it gets. It has a history to be accounted for. But the folks down at the Baptist church had nothing to do with any of that, and the constant Bill Maher-style superficial smearing of ordinary church going decent regular American folks over things like the crusades, or even abortion doctor killings, is downright silly and unserious.

Christian church leaders are the first to publicly condemn abortion doctor murders... except for one or two wackos who somehow are put on TV whereas the vast majority of Christian spokespeople are not.

[Pky6471]

No but it would be fun. lol We'll probably go out to the bars and get drunk after the competition. Hot chick, beer, and long drive. Doesn't get much better than that.

JG

who gives a shittttt about long drive... hot chicks and beer would do...

[famousdavis]

There is no doubt 'a lot of people' have been killed in the name of' Christianity. There no doubt there were, and are, many Christian hypocrites, as there are many hypocrites in any situation where moral high ground is claimed.

I insist that there is no historical equivalent to the mass murderers of the political left in the 20th century, and that this, not the murders of Christianity, is by far the worst blight on the history of humanity.

Not to mention that, besides a half dozen nutcases trying to kill or killing abortionists over the past twenty years, there just ain't much to show for Christian mass murders since the Inquisition, which did not last that long, historically speaking.

And genuine historical inquiry will usually show that Christianity was used as a reason, but was not the primary reason, for must such periods or events. Conquering America was about resources, as any student of the Spanish court can tell you. Renaissance European 'smug superiority' over native races may have had a nominally Christian element, but that can hardly be the real reason for massive worldwide hunting for gold and silver and such.

Stalin-- 30 million. Mao-- 70 million. Hitler -- almost 10 million. Pol Pot-- 2 million. Ceaucescu-- as many Romanians as he could.

Abortion doctor killers -- half dozen or so. Maybe a dozen.

Crusades -- brutal, but on both sides. Saladin does get the nod for moral superiority, but it's a rough go for both sides on that score.

Oh yeah, and the crusades ended 700 years ago. Pol Pot and Ceaucescu were still piling up the skulls in the 1970s and 1980s in the name of political leftism/Marxism. And the muslims are still doing it, with not a lot of difference in ideology albeit religulous overtones to it.

p.s. as for numbers, bear in mind that population of the entire Roman Empire in the first century was only 60 million. That includes most of Europe, north Africa and countries that were later western satellites of the Soviet Union.

I seriously doubt all of organized Christianity in all its history actually murdered more than five million r so, and it was probably less than that. This does not count, of course, individual despots or small scale killings as part of local warfare, which also would have claimed nominal Christianity as one of its motives in dealing with the unfaithful.... like Jews, who were killed in this manner off and on for millenia, sometimes by Christians and sometimes not.

Christianity as a political group deserves what it gets. It has a history to be accounted for. But the folks down at the Baptist church had nothing to do with any of that, and the constant Bill Maher-style superficial smearing ordinary church going decent regular American folks over things like the crusades, or even abortion doctor killings, is downright silly and unserious.

Christian church leaders are the first to publicly condemn abortion doctor murders... except for one or two wackos who somehow are put on TV whereas the vast majority of Christian spokespeople are not.

I've never understood the nuts that sit outside the abortion clinics with the gruesome photos. I'm surprised they don't get beat up more often or at the very least have stuff thrown at them.

[daveperkins]

I've never understood the nuts that sit outside the abortion clinics with the gruesome photos. I'm surprised they don't get beat up more often or at the very least have stuff thrown at them.

You might also be surprised to learn that, for years now, Americans in polls are more than 60% against abortion as a general right (while still making concessions for mother's life in danger, rape, incest etc, and of course literally 99% of abortions today do not cite any of those reasons, and are simply about convenience).

some years recently it's been as high as 66%.

Ever noticed the media never reports what polls say when they're polls on public view of abortion?

That would be because the media, and the left, are in a severe minority position on that topic, and they know it.

This might be why the 'nuts' don't get 'beaten up' as often as one might think. :-) The nuts are more numerous than the 'smart people'......

[SoonerBS]

I've never understood the nuts that sit outside the abortion clinics with the gruesome photos. I'm surprised they don't get beat up more often or at the very least have stuff thrown at them.

This might help you understand it a bit more:

"Since the decision of Roe vs. Wade in 1973 up until 2005, 37,241,483 infants had been put to death through abortion. A total death toll of American soldiers in ever war, insurgency and police action since the revolutionary war comes to 1,311,252. That also includes those who died through avenue of disease and natural causes during these conflicts."

Those so called "nuts" with the pictures are trying to get some very calloused individuals to consider the fact that they ARE extinguishing human life whenever they get an abortion. The 37,241,483 was up to 2005.

There is too much evidence towards the proof of a fetus being alive and functioning with life to discard it as just "tissue." I agree with Dave, liberals that have approved of, and practiced abortion in the 20th century, are your biggest murderers bar none. Don't be blaming the Christians and religion for all the wars and mass murders in history . . . . .

[daveperkins]

Other than the crusades and the occasional abortion clinic, when is it that people killed in the name of Jesus? Not a joke. I'm seriously asking. And how many people were killed in the crusades for that matter?

Specifically in the Crusades, the "Christian" euro army was vastly outnumbered, and was only able to win when it did win because Saladin wasn't taking the battle too seriously. He thought his numerical advantage would give him easy victories, and so he did stuff like spread his forces too thin, lose track of which forces were where, that sort of thing. But they didn't win every battle.

And there simply weren't that many people in the Palestinian territory anyway. It was still mostly desert. Saladin brought soldiers from great distances, and his own soldiers plundered and murdered locals in their villages for sustenance and booty even on the way to fight the Christians. Both sides were fighting for religion, and both sides murdered a helluva lot of innocent non-soldiers in the name of their religions.

but as to numbers, it just wasn't that many. Three hundred years of crusades probably didn't kill even a million people on both sides. Populations were simply not that large.

[famousdavis]

You might also be surprised to learn that, for years now, Americans in polls are more than 60% against abortion as a general right (while still making concessions for mother's life in danger, rape, incest etc, and of course literally 99% of abortions today do not cite any of those reasons, and are simply about convenience).

some years recently it's been as high as 66%.

Ever noticed the media never reports what polls say when they're polls on public view of abortion?

That would be because the media, and the left, are in a severe minority position on that topic, and they know it.

This might be why the 'nuts' don't get 'beaten up' as often as one might think. :-) The nuts are more numerous than the 'smart people'......

This is one of those topics where there is absolutely no point in arguing because neither one of us is ever going to agree. Personally, I can't believe abortion is still a topic that is brought up in presidential debates. I think the abortion issue has considerably weakened the republican party. It's one of the reasons why I'm libertarian. Dave, I hope you're not one of those people who put up poll numbers but then don't explain where they are from or how they were gathered. I have never met anyone personally that is against abortion. I'm also from California so that explains some of it. I'm pretty conservative on most topics but not on abortion.

[Horseballs]

Can we cut the religion/politics posts? Some people tend to get overly emotional about things. Dave, I'm asking nicely.

[daveperkins]

This is one of those topics where there is absolutely no point in arguing because neither one of us is ever going to agree. Personally, I can't believe abortion is still a topic that is brought up in presidential debates. I think the abortion issue has considerably weakened the republican party. It's one of the reasons why I'm libertarian. Dave, I hope you're not one of those people who put up poll numbers but then don't explain where they are from or how they were gathered. I have never met anyone personally that is against abortion. I'm also from California so that explains some of it. I'm pretty conservative on most topics but not on abortion.

FD, I'm too bored to hunt down that poll, so my generalization will stand and I won't defend it further. I know it's right, but I won't insist on it.

Other than that, what I've said on this topic is purely observational.

"never met anyone personally against abortion"

reminds me of the rich liberal New Yorker who was so shocked that Reagan won 49 states "I don't know anyone who voted for him!" true story. :-)

You may be right that being Californian has a lot to do with it. I don't know, as I've never met anyone who is Californian. :-)

I personally believe an unborn child is a human being, and that a lot of women who have abortions end up suffering emotionally in later life because on some level they know what they've done.

I've known more than one woman who had an abortion (married to one of them, after the fact), and both would get tears in their eyes upon sight of a schoolyard and think to themselves "my son would be that age now" or some such.

If it was just a 'tissue mass', a tumor removal, that kind of long term heartache wouldn't happen. Having a wart removed, or a cyst, is not the same. Pregnancy is not an illness, and ending pregnancy is not treatment. It is the halting of a human life, the ending of a human being, in my view. I recognize and acknowledge that it is my view.

I do not wish to go out and arrest or attack anyone doing this, whether patient or doctor. I don't even wish to judge them. For me, it's a matter of the soul, of spiritual conviction, of convincing people of the value of the unborn child... but if I fail to convince, I don't walk around all full of anger at anyone. It makes me sad, not angry. Human beings sometimes do awful things, and sometimes they truly believe they're doing the right thing.

It's tough to be a human being. :-)

/end abortion discussion

[daveperkins]

This might help you understand it a bit more:

"Since the decision of Roe vs. Wade in 1973 up until 2005, 37,241,483 infants had been put to death through abortion. A total death toll of American soldiers in ever war, insurgency and police action since the revolutionary war comes to 1,311,252. That also includes those who died through avenue of disease and natural causes during these conflicts."

Those so called "nuts" with the pictures are trying to get some very calloused individuals to consider the fact that they ARE extinguishing human life whenever they get an abortion. The 37,241,483 was up to 2005.

There is too much evidence towards the proof of a fetus being alive and functioning with life to discard it as just "tissue." I agree with Dave, liberals that have approved of, and practiced abortion in the 20th century, are your biggest murderers bar none. Don't be blaming the Christians and religion for all the wars and mass murders in history . . . . .

Chinese Communists even today will drag a woman from her home and down to the 'hospital' if they find out she's pregnant and already has her one State-allotted child.

It doesn't always happen, but that's only due to bureaucratic inefficiency and limited State resources. It is what they want to do, limit each woman to one child, because of limitations of state resources for other purposes like education and food and so forth. And when they can, they do this.

I think about my former wife crying at the schoolyard thinking about how her aborted son would be this age now and wishing she could have that decision back... and then I imagine a Chinese woman who didn't even WANT an abortion but got one anyway thanks to Karl Marx and communism. State control. Central command. National health care.

[daveperkins]

Can we cut the religion/politics posts? Some people tend to get overly emotional about things. Dave, I'm asking nicely.

Geez, HB... you were kicking the bosshogg in the nuts about Christianity a few minutes ago.. out of nowhere.. satirical metaphorical accusations of not living up to his standards.. something about pounding beers being what Jesus would do, or somesuch...

I just defend the things that seem to need defending, within the sphere of my principles.. I used to be all polite and stuff, but I've learned over time that being polite still gets me kicked in the teeth... so I say what I think and believe.

on this one, I'm done if you are. :-)

[famousdavis]

FD, I'm too bored to hunt down that poll, so my generalization will stand and I won't defend it further. I know it's right, but I won't insist on it.

Other than that, what I've said on this topic is purely observational.

"never met anyone personally against abortion"

reminds me of the rich liberal New Yorker who was so shocked that Reagan won 49 states "I don't know anyone who voted for him!" true story. :-)

You may be right that being Californian has a lot to do with it. I don't know, as I've never met anyone who is Californian. :-)

I personally believe an unborn child is a human being, and that a lot of women who have abortions end up suffering emotionally in later life because on some level they know what they've done.

I've known more than one woman who had an abortion (married to one of them, after the fact), and both would get tears in their eyes upon sight of a schoolyard and think to themselves "my son would be that age now" or some such.

If it was just a 'tissue mass', a tumor removal, that kind of long term heartache wouldn't happen. Having a wart removed, or a cyst, is not the same. Pregnancy is not an illness, and ending pregnancy is not treatment. It is the halting of a human life, the ending of a human being, in my view. I recognize and acknowledge that it is my view.

I do not wish to go out and arrest or attack anyone doing this, whether patient or doctor. I don't even wish to judge them. For me, it's a matter of the soul, of spiritual conviction, of convincing people of the value of the unborn child... but if I fail to convince, I don't walk around all full of anger at anyone. It makes me sad, not angry. Human beings sometimes do awful things, and sometimes they truly believe they're doing the right thing.

It's tough to be a human being. :-)

/end abortion discussion

I agree with some of the things you say above. My only response is that I can't imagine living in a government where they would force a woman to have a baby. She may regret it later but it's her body. We clould argue all day long about term, rights of the baby, etc and that's why it's not worth arguing over. We disagree.

People argue about hunting. I think people should have the right to bear arms and the right to hunt. However, I wish the people who hunt would have the balls to admit that the only reason they do it is for the thrill of the kill. That is why people hunt. It's the thrill of being outdoors with their buddies and then killing something in cold blood...just like our ancestor's did millions of years ago. I do not believe that people hunt for meat. The meat is just a side issue and I would bet that most hunter's end up eating less than 10% of what they kill. If I went hunting I'm sure I would feel the thrill but I doubt that I would feel good when I got back home. I'm not against hunting, I just think it's bad for your health.

[daveperkins]

I agree with some of the things you say above. My only response is that I can't imagine living in a government where they would force a woman to have a baby. She may regret it later but it's her body. We clould argue all day long about term, rights of the baby, etc and that's why it's not worth arguing over. We disagree.

People argue about hunting. I think people should have the right to bear arms and the right to hunt. However, I wish the people who hunt would have the balls to admit that the only reason they do it is for the thrill of the kill. That is why people hunt. It's the thrill of being outdoors with their buddies and then killing something in cold blood...just like our ancestor's did millions of years ago. I do not believe that people hunt for meat. The meat is just a side issue and I would bet that most hunter's end up eating less than 10% of what they kill. If I went hunting I'm sure I would feel the thrill but I doubt that I would feel good when I got back home. I'm not against hunting, I just think it's bad for your health.

I don't know enough about hunters and hunting to even have an opinion. Never felt like doing it. I'm sure, like everything else, there are good hunters who follow along with animal population control measures (one large reason for many kinds of hunting in the US) and who try for clean kills and who eat what they shoot, and there are others who do it only for the stupid thrills and kill as much as possible for no reason, etc. Beer is probably involved. :-)

good folks, and some hypocrites. Traditional Americans, and traditional dumba$$e$. I can't think of any group, doing anything, that doesn't have some hypocrites and dumba$$es in it.

[edgey]

When countrys are run by organised religion cruel and terrible things happen. The Christian right in America is no better or worse than those in the middle east and Africa who would stone to death a woman for adultery.

ALL religion should be banned immediately in every country, everywhere. The world would be a much more peaceful and pleasant place.

Amen

Edgey

[edgey]

Don't forget crocodiles. Crocodiles murder a lot of people too.

Crocodiles eat a lot of people.

Edgey

[edgey]

overlooking the massive hostility toward the world's largest charitable givers over the past two thousand years, I challenge your math.. Hitler, Stalin and Mao put together eliminated well over 100 million people.

Citations, please, for Christianity's mass murders which add up to more than that. And if you're going to be fair, all NON christian mass murders over the past two thousand years, not just the twentieth century, should be counted. This includes, of course, murders OF Christians which are still going on today in places like Nigeria and the Philippines, and also the mass murders which have nothing to do with Christianity, which are most of them, historically speaking.

addendum-- He is genuinely historical, as is mentioned in several Roman historical works over several centuries. This means he is NOT mythical. It is self-contradiction to claim both.

Dave

I always find it amusing when religous people ask for evidence about non believers assertions whilst demanding we accept their belief on faith and faith alone.

I will provide evidence when you PROOVE that God exists.

I wont hold my breath

Regards

Edgey

[daveperkins]

When countrys are run by organised religion cruel and terrible things happen. The Christian right in America is no better or worse than those in the middle east and Africa who would stone to death a woman for adultery.

ALL religion should be banned immediately in every country, everywhere. The world would be a much more peaceful and pleasant place.

Amen

Edgey

finally, circumspection....

[edgey]

You might also be surprised to learn that, for years now, Americans in polls are more than 60% against abortion as a general right (while still making concessions for mother's life in danger, rape, incest etc, and of course literally 99% of abortions today do not cite any of those reasons, and are simply about convenience).

some years recently it's been as high as 66%.

Ever noticed the media never reports what polls say when they're polls on public view of abortion?

That would be because the media, and the left, are in a severe minority position on that topic, and they know it.

This might be why the 'nuts' don't get 'beaten up' as often as one might think. :-) The nuts are more numerous than the 'smart people'......

Dave

98.98% of all statistics are made up on the spot. This thread is proof of that statistic

Edgey

[SoonerBS]

Dave

98.98% of all statistics are made up on the spot. This thread is proof of that statistic

Edgey

Yes, but actual facts and statistics have never stood in the way of a good point on GR. Remember that . . . . . .

[daveperkins]

Dave

I always find it amusing when religous people ask for evidence about non believers assertions whilst demanding we accept their belief on faith and faith alone.

I will provide evidence when you PROOVE that God exists.

I wont hold my breath

Regards

Edgey

I'm glad you're amused.

But I have not demanded you accept any religious belief I have. On faith or otherwise. My assertion here is a historical one, not religious. The assertion that I disputed was historical, "more people have been killed in the name of Jesus than were killed by Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined". I know a little about history, and in my view this assertion is just wrong on facts.

I have never demanded that anyone, anywhere accept anything on faith alone. I am not an evangelist, particularly not a forceful demanding evangelist. I have a rational mind and can defend myself. And I enjoy it.

Please continue to breathe.

:-)

[daveperkins]

Dave

98.98% of all statistics are made up on the spot. This thread is proof of that statistic

Edgey

I would go further, and postulate that 98.98% of almost everything on GR is made up on the spot.

And if I weren't here it would be 100%, or more.

[edgey]

finally, circumspection....

Dave

I dont have to proove my assertion that more murders have been carried out in the name of Christianity that by Hitler, Stalin and Mao because i accept it as a fact on faith and faith alone.

Believe in something on faith and faith alone, mmmmmmm where have i heard that one?

Edgey

[edgey]

I would go further, and postulate that 98.98% of almost everything on GR is made up on the spot.

And if I weren't here it would be 100%, or more.

Paticularly the ridiculous idea that a "God" exists. One of the great lies

Edgey

[famousdavis]

Dave

I always find it amusing when religous people ask for evidence about non believers assertions whilst demanding we accept their belief on faith and faith alone.

I will provide evidence when you PROOVE that God exists.

I wont hold my breath

Regards

Edgey

First you'd have to define the meaning of "proof". I can tell you this...for whatever reason I do know God's will vs. my own will. How I know that I have no idea. I don't belong to any kind of organized religion but I have become spiritual over the last 3 years. My own will is usually very self centered and involves me doing whatever I want to please myself. If I choose my will over God's I usually end up doing things that appear at first to be self gratifying but in the end they make me depressed and lonely. However, if I try to follow what I consider to be God's will (helping others, being nice to people, being honest and being grateful) at the end of the day I feel incredibly happy. If I ask a human being to help me with a decision I may get 100 different responses based on who I ask. If I ask what God would have me do I immediately know the right answer. I'm not saying that I hear some voice from above. I don't. I think we all know right from wrong because there is a God and when we seek Him with good intentions our lives get better. Again, this has nothing to do with religion.

[edgey]

I'm glad you're amused.

But I have not demanded you accept any religious belief I have. On faith or otherwise. My assertion here is a historical one, not religious. The assertion that I disputed was historical, "more people have been killed in the name of Jesus than were killed by Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined". I know a little about history, and in my view this assertion is just wrong on facts.

I have never demanded that anyone, anywhere accept anything on faith alone. I am not an evangelist, particularly not a forceful demanding evangelist. I have a rational mind and can defend myself. And I enjoy it.

Please continue to breathe.

:-)

I believe my assertion is a religous belief. If you can be a Jedi i am going to be a church of "Religion is Murder". I dont have to proove anything as an historical fact because it is a part of my belief.

Religion is silly and i contend that in the last 2000 years more people have been killed in the name of Christianity than Hitler, Stalin and Mao. It is no more silly to say that then to say an all omnipitant being created the world in 7 days etc etc BUT i cant actually proove it.

Carry on

Edgey

[daveperkins]

First you'd have to define the meaning of "proof". I can tell you this...for whatever reason I do know God's will vs. my own will. How I know that I have no idea. I don't belong to any kind of organized religion but I have become spiritual over the last 3 years. My own will is usually very self centered and involves me doing whatever I want to please myself. If I choose my will over God's I usually end up doing things that appear at first to be self gratifying but in the end they make me depressed and lonely. However, if I try to follow what I consider to be God's will (helping others, being nice to people, being honest and being grateful) at the end of the day I feel incredibly happy. If I ask a human being to help me with a decision I may get 100 different responses based on who I ask. If I ask what God would have me do I immediately know the right answer. I'm not saying that I hear some voice from above. I don't. I think we all know right from wrong because there is a God and when we seek Him with good intentions our lives get better. Again, this has nothing to do with religion.

"... in the end they make me depressed and lonely"

I remember a great episode of the twilight zone.. the old b/w show... a gangster gets shot, and wakes up in a bed in a nice hotel room.. he gets up, surprised that he is not hurt.. checks out the bar, well stocked... good lookin' broad walks in... cards on the table.. he takes stock of his situation slowly, realizing (with help from mysterious fellow in a suit) that he is dead. As he surveys his booze, broad and cards, he gets frightened. "is this all there is to heaven?!?!?!"

The guy in the suit responds "who says this is heaven? heh heh"

[daveperkins]

Paticularly the ridiculous idea that a "God" exists. One of the great lies

Edgey

work it, mate... :-)

back in the 1940s in some city, after the German philosopher Nietzsche died, "God is dead... signed, Nietzsche" was found graffitoed in a phone booth... a line appeared through it, and written beneath it was 'Nietzsche is dead... signed, God"

apocryphal story but I liked it.

[Riverologist]

] mother's life in danger, rape, incest etc, .

My father-in-law is a family doctor for 35 years.....out of all the women who have come in for advice on abortions in his three decade, under 10 cases were because of of these reasons and half of those where because they found out the baby had DOWNS.

Almost every single other one of them was a use of birth control. The general public has no clue the extent and reasons abortions are performed.

What's comical is that I knew a woman who had an abortion for birth control reasons and didn't think twice about destroying a life, but when it came time when she actually wanted to start having children she was posting, emailing and showing pictures of her ultrasound to anyone that would look. A life is a life....not when you want it to be.

Have the kid and give it up for adoption....I have sister in law and a cousin that would literally die to have a child, their own or not.

[edgey]

First you'd have to define the meaning of "proof". I can tell you this...for whatever reason I do know God's will vs. my own will. How I know that I have no idea. I don't belong to any kind of organized religion but I have become spiritual over the last 3 years. My own will is usually very self centered and involves me doing whatever I want to please myself. If I choose my will over God's I usually end up doing things that appear at first to be self gratifying but in the end they make me depressed and lonely. However, if I try to follow what I consider to be God's will (helping others, being nice to people, being honest and being grateful) at the end of the day I feel incredibly happy. If I ask a human being to help me with a decision I may get 100 different responses based on who I ask. If I ask what God would have me do I immediately know the right answer. I'm not saying that I hear some voice from above. I don't. I think we all know right from wrong because there is a God and when we seek Him with good intentions our lives get better. Again, this has nothing to do with religion.

Rogerian therapy would contend that humans are basically good. We are good because that is our nature and has nothing to do with "God". We were not made in his image we evolved from apes.

When "God" helped us to make decisions we burnt women at the stake as witches and tortured heretics. FD you are a good person who does good things for good reasons because that is who and what you are, Dont give some mythical being the credit for your morality and decency.

Edgey

[daveperkins]

Dave

I dont have to proove my assertion that more murders have been carried out in the name of Christianity that by Hitler, Stalin and Mao because i accept it as a fact on faith and faith alone.

Believe in something on faith and faith alone, mmmmmmm where have i heard that one?

Edgey

Not from ME, ya big dope. :-)

[daveperkins]

Rogerian therapy would contend that humans are basically good. We are good because that is our nature and has nothing to do with "God". We were not made in his image we evolved from apes.

When "God" helped us to make decisions we burnt women at the stake as witches and tortured heretics. FD you are a good person who does good things for good reasons because that is who and what you are, Dont give some mythical being the credit for your morality and decency.

Edgey

Rogerian therapy? How much rogering, exactly, is involved?

[edgey]

work it, mate... :-)

back in the 1940s in some city, after the German philosopher Nietzsche died, "God is dead... signed, Nietzsche" was found graffitoed in a phone booth... a line appeared through it, and written beneath it was 'Nietzsche is dead... signed, God"

apocryphal story but I liked it.

I suspect that "God" didnt really sign it, more likely a human taking the piss............

[daveperkins]

I suspect that "God" didnt really sign it, more likely a human taking the piss............

so they piss in phone booths in Britain too? That's why they got rid of the 'booth' part over here in the States.. just a sort of shield over the phone now...

[edgey]

Rogerian therapy? How much rogering, exactly, is involved?

As a married man with small kids, frankly not a lot. I believe that Camp Freddy gets a lot of botty action though.

Damn, there goes the idea of tolerance and Christian religion again

Edgey

[Not a hacker]

I agree with some of the things you say above. My only response is that I can't imagine living in a government where they would force a woman to have a baby. She may regret it later but it's her body. We clould argue all day long about term, rights of the baby, etc and that's why it's not worth arguing over. We disagree.

People argue about hunting. I think people should have the right to bear arms and the right to hunt. However, I wish the people who hunt would have the balls to admit that the only reason they do it is for the thrill of the kill. That is why people hunt. It's the thrill of being outdoors with their buddies and then killing something in cold blood...just like our ancestor's did millions of years ago. I do not believe that people hunt for meat. The meat is just a side issue and I would bet that most hunter's end up eating less than 10% of what they kill. If I went hunting I'm sure I would feel the thrill but I doubt that I would feel good when I got back home. I'm not against hunting, I just think it's bad for your health.

This is especially true if Dick Cheney is your hunting partner. As everyone on GR is probably aware, I am against hunting and have similar thoughts to you as to the motivation of 'hunters'. My favourite celebrity quote on hunting is from Jesse 'the body' Ventura : "You need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi."

P.S. I have nothing but respect and admiration for true hunters i.e special forces operatives, snipers and just regular grunts.

[Not a hacker]

Other than the crusades and the occasional abortion clinic, when is it that people killed in the name of Jesus? Not a joke. I'm seriously asking. And how many people were killed in the crusades for that matter?

Some of the worst atrocities of history were carried out in the name of the Catholic Church. The civilizations of central and South America were destroyed by the arrival of the Conquistadors, resulting in population decreases of up to 90% in less than 100 years, and murder, torture and wholesale enslavement of entire populations. The cruelty perpetrated against the south american indians by catholics is beyond belief. To be fair the only motivation was the lust for gold, but they still used the bible as justification for their actions.

The Spanish inquisition was certainly no picnic for it's hundreds of thousands of victims (the majority of which died) either.

[Not a hacker]

More people get killed from hippos every year than any other varmit.....

More people get killed every year from falling coconuts than form shark attacks. True statistic.

I've also heard that by far the deadliest non human creature in Africa is the mosquito.

[Not a hacker]

As long as you are doing all things through Christ, I have no problem with any of this.
When you are pounding beers and chasing skirts, do you ever wonder "what would Jesus do?"

Thinking "what would Jesus do?" would probably be more constructive in a long drive contest than Larry's philosophy "What would Pavin do?"

[SoonerBS]

This is especially true if Dick Cheney is your hunting partner. As everyone on GR is probably aware, I am against hunting and have similar thoughts to you as to the motivation of 'hunters'. My favourite celebrity quote on hunting is from Jesse 'the body' Ventura : "You need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi."

P.S. I have nothing but respect and admiration for true hunters i.e special forces operatives, snipers and just regular grunts.

So where do you stand on abortion? In our nation, Vegans and animal rights fanatics feel very strongly about killing animals, but most of them think nothing about aborting human life if it is interfering with their "careers" in some way. That ranks about as high on the hypocritical meter as it gets . . . .

[SoonerBS]

By the way, here is another "religious" thread that is destined for 100 posts despite HB's pleas to the contrary . . . . .

[Not a hacker]

So where do you stand on abortion? In our nation, Vegans and animal rights fanatics feel very strongly about killing animals, but most of them think nothing about aborting human life if it is interfering with their "careers" in some way. That ranks about as high on the hypocritical meter as it gets . . . .

I'll be honest with you Sooner, I don't really know anywhere near enough about the whole subject to sit comfortably on either side of the fence. From my limited knowledge I find the entire argument from both sides both compelling but very confusing. I am certainly not comfortable about the possibility of a life is being extinguished, but equally I am not comfortable about removing women's rights to make decisions about their own bodies. It all comes down to when a chemical reaction in a woman's body ceases to be a chemical reaction and becomes a life. I certainly have issues with late term abortions, and if I was forced to take a side I would probably say that if we are to err we should err on the side of life, but I don't feel strongly enough to call myself an anti abortionist. I think if I was a female I would feel more comfortable passing judgement on this issue, but as a male I can't relate to what's going on in there.

On a related topic, one thing I strongly disagree with is the law that says you can't be charged with murder or other death related offences like infanticide until a baby draws it's first breath. A baby killed in it's mother's womb should be treated the same as any other human life. It makes me sick when I read about drunk drivers or abusive men killing unborn babies but not being charged with their murder.

[daveperkins]

Some of the worst atrocities of history were carried out in the name of the Catholic Church. The civilizations of central and South America were destroyed by the arrival of the Conquistadors, resulting in population decreases of up to 90% in less than 100 years, and murder, torture and wholesale enslavement of entire populations. The cruelty perpetrated against the south american indians by catholics is beyond belief. To be fair the only motivation was the lust for gold, but they still used the bible as justification for their actions.

The Spanish inquisition was certainly no picnic for it's hundreds of thousands of victims (the majority of which died) either.

as I've said, Christianity as a political group/movement has a lot to answer for.

To be fair, natives in many countries, including America, perpetrated atrocities upon each other regularly, long before white folks arrived. The Europeans increased the scale, but the barbarism was not new. in the American south, we could ask the Hopi about the Apache in years past and get the same tale of repulsive cruelty we hear of the Spaniards from other natives in more recent history....

And I might again add that it has been several hundred years since these things happened, and the secular godless leftist massacres of Stalin, Mao and so forth are much more recent AND larger still...

One needn't be religious, or even to claim religion as a motive, to conduct large scale massacres. One need only have, and desire MORE, political authoritarian power... religion is simply one way, of many, that this kind of authoritarian power was achieved, increased and maintained...

[daveperkins]

I'll be honest with you Sooner, I don't really know anywhere near enough about the whole subject to sit comfortably on either side of the fence. From my limited knowledge I find the entire argument from both sides both compelling but very confusing. I am certainly not comfortable about the possibility of a life is being extinguished, but equally I am not comfortable about removing women's rights to make decisions about their own bodies. It all comes down to when a chemical reaction in a woman's body ceases to be a chemical reaction and becomes a life. I certainly have issues with late term abortions, and if I was forced to take a side I would probably say that if we are to err we should err on the side of life, but I don't feel strongly enough to call myself an anti abortionist. I think if I was a female I would feel more comfortable passing judgement on this issue, but as a male I can't relate to what's going on in there.

On a related topic, one thing I strongly disagree with is the law that says you can't be charged with murder or other death related offences like infanticide until a baby draws it's first breath. A baby killed in it's mother's womb should be treated the same as any other human life. It makes me sick when I read about drunk drivers or abusive men killing unborn babies but not being charged with their murder.

interestingly, on the few occasions in which a man found himself in court because he caused the death of a pregnant woman, American judges have shown a strong preference for charging and convicting such a man of two deaths, be it murder or negligent manslaughter or what have you.. in Colorado a few years back, a man who shot a woman in the stomach was charged with murder because the baby died even though the woman lived.. and he was found guilty.

And yet an abortion done by Planned Parenthood in the next block gets nothing but a yawn from the same judge... it is a puzzling disconnect and reveals a profound desire NOT to confront that issue, to whistle past the graveyard.

[daveperkins]

My father-in-law is a family doctor for 35 years.....out of all the women who have come in for advice on abortions in his three decade, under 10 cases were because of of these reasons and half of those where because they found out the baby had DOWNS.

Almost every single other one of them was a use of birth control. The general public has no clue the extent and reasons abortions are performed.

What's comical is that I knew a woman who had an abortion for birth control reasons and didn't think twice about destroying a life, but when it came time when she actually wanted to start having children she was posting, emailing and showing pictures of her ultrasound to anyone that would look. A life is a life....not when you want it to be.

Have the kid and give it up for adoption....I have sister in law and a cousin that would literally die to have a child, their own or not.

Planned Parenthood clinics are primarily located in poor black neighborhoods.

I do not know precisely why, but I do know that poor black people are no more likely to have Downs babies than anyone else. It is a matter of the age of the mother and statistics, not of race or economic class.

I would guess that PP gets a lot of patients, regardless of race or economic class, who would never admit their pregnancy to their family doctor. Your father in law's stats are enlightening, but they are not the whole story of American abortions. Most are done by abortion clinics without consultation by any other doctors. It is a HUGELY lucrative practice, and the location of the clinics indicates to me that somehow taxpayer dollars play a role in their enrichment.


Sooner cited tens of millions of abortions since the Jane Roe decision. I would bet any amount of money that the percentage of black children aborted exceeds the nation's population percentage of black people (somewhere around 13%) by a factor of at least three.

That, to me, is racism slightly veiled.

People by the thousands are travelling to Africa or Romania to adopt. I guess because those people can't afford abortions.

A shame we don't have more American babies available for that.

[daveperkins]

As a married man with small kids, frankly not a lot. I believe that Camp Freddy gets a lot of botty action though.

Damn, there goes the idea of tolerance and Christian religion again

Edgey

surely one can discuss, among gentlemen, the idea of too-jolly rogering without un-Christian overtones or intolerance....

[daveperkins]

By the way, here is another "religious" thread that is destined for 100 posts despite HB's pleas to the contrary . . . . .

HB seems provoked to near-anger by this stuff... not sure why... it can't be me, as all my posts are utterly reasonable, genial, coherent and even compassionate to the side I disagree with...

But we seem to have brought out the spiritual side of FD... I'd have bet against that.. :-)

[SoonerBS]

HB seems provoked to near-anger by this stuff... not sure why... it can't be me, as all my posts are utterly reasonable, genial, coherent and even compassionate to the side I disagree with...

But we seem to have brought out the spiritual side of FD... I'd have bet against that.. :-)

By the time we get through with FD, he'll be a better man. He'll be Pro Life all the way, he'll believe in the God of the Bible instead of the God of his heart, and he'll be sporting a new set of Mizuno GFF irons instead of those Ping Eye 2 abominations. Yes, I see a great future for FD . . . . . . .

[daveperkins]

This is especially true if Dick Cheney is your hunting partner. As everyone on GR is probably aware, I am against hunting and have similar thoughts to you as to the motivation of 'hunters'. My favourite celebrity quote on hunting is from Jesse 'the body' Ventura : "You need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi."

P.S. I have nothing but respect and admiration for true hunters i.e special forces operatives, snipers and just regular grunts.

Now that you mention it, I have a buddy who was a Navy SEAL (I've vetted him through SOCOM, he is BUD/S graduate, I know the class number and I know what team he was with) and he isn't much on guns. Keeps his retired M4 in the closet at home, doesn't conceal/carry, doesn't hunt. Believes in gun rights but doesn't exercise them.

It could be (and I don't know) kind of hard for anyone who's done what he's done (Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq among others he won't tell me) to shoot an animal for reasons other than food.

It's possible. Ventura, also a SEAL, is probably on the right track.

[Not a hacker]

interestingly, on the few occasions in which a man found himself in court because he caused the death of a pregnant woman, American judges have shown a strong preference for charging and convicting such a man of two deaths, be it murder or negligent manslaughter or what have you.. in Colorado a few years back, a man who shot a woman in the stomach was charged with murder because the baby died even though the woman lived.. and he was found guilty.
And yet an abortion done by Planned Parenthood in the next block gets nothing but a yawn from the same judge... it is a puzzling disconnect and reveals a profound desire NOT to confront that issue, to whistle past the graveyard.

You guys obviously have more snesible laws regarding unborn children than we have here. In Australia ther is some outdated rule of a baby having to draw breath before it can be considered a life or some BS. I can only hope that the perps in the case you mentioned got the chair (another sensible law enforcement tool you Americans have which we bleeding heart Aussies don't have).

[spanqdoggie]

Now that you mention it, I have a buddy who was a Navy SEAL [I](I've vetted him through SOCOM, he is BUD/S graduate...

Dave, how come there are no black Navy Seals, and if so, less than 1 percent?

I know the answer... did I post my reasons for this here before?

I forgot.

[daveperkins]

Dave, how come there are no black Navy Seals, and if so, less than 1 percent?

.. did I post my reasons for this here before?

I forgot.

I have no idea. And... I have no idea.

[daveperkins]

I believe my assertion is a religous belief. If you can be a Jedi i am going to be a church of "Religion is Murder". I dont have to proove anything as an historical fact because it is a part of my belief.

Religion is silly and i contend that in the last 2000 years more people have been killed in the name of Christianity than Hitler, Stalin and Mao. It is no more silly to say that then to say an all omnipitant being created the world in 7 days etc etc BUT i cant actually proove it.

Carry on

Edgey

(Jedi response in Yoda voice) "all omnipotent being, you say.. redundancy,this is... hmmmm"

[daveperkins]

By the time we get through with FD, he'll be a better man. He'll be Pro Life all the way, he'll believe in the God of the Bible instead of the God of his heart, and he'll be sporting a new set of Mizuno GFF irons instead of those Ping Eye 2 abominations. Yes, I see a great future for FD . . . . . . .

Convert from Eye 2? BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

next you'll be evangelizing me away from my Adams paddles...

[spanqdoggie]

I have no idea. And... I have no idea.

I am surprised you didn't know.

Remember the poor football players that died on the boat in Florida recently? --> http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/9191

This was a very sad situation, so I will treat it with respect, but I believe that of the 4 men, one white man survived, and the three black men died. I understand that at that time, the waters were not warm.

Most Navy Seals are white men with European backgrounds... Norwegian, Swedes, all that upper north white backgrounds; these crackers are able to handle cold water for some reason.

This is not an absolute, but little if any black men, can handle the cold water training it takes to become a Seal... That is all there is to it. That is your answer.

The three black athletes that died on the boat in Florida went into hypothermia much quicker than the white quy, and they just let go after a few hours, and died; that is a case study why black men cannot make it through Navy Seal training.

A friend of mine was in a Safari recently in South Africa and was amazed at how the black dudes guiding the white jokers around had no hats or sunglasses in 100 degree heat...

We all have our strengths and weaknesses and black dudes are not meant for cold water, and honkys are not meant for all day sun.

Blacks are not better or worse, honky ass crackers are not better or worse... we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

As a black man, I hate cold water.

So now you know Dave.

[Kiwi Player]

Holy Crap!

I go away for the Easter Break and on my return I login to find out how The Bosses long drive thread could have generated 68 responses so quickly only to find that only about 2 or 3 posts had anything to do with long drives and the rest is religion/wars/abortion etc. Was there any speciesism/hunting in this thread or was that all in Bosses OTHER thread?

[Kiwi Player]

This is especially true if Dick Cheney is your hunting partner. As everyone on GR is probably aware, I am against hunting and have similar thoughts to you as to the motivation of 'hunters'. My favourite celebrity quote on hunting is from Jesse 'the body' Ventura : "You need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi."

P.S. I have nothing but respect and admiration for true hunters i.e special forces operatives, snipers and just regular grunts.

I agree on so many levels. When a Lion takes down a Zebra the Zebra has no chance of taking down the Lion, it's simply defenceless against a Lions razor sharp claws and powerful jaws so in my book a Lion is totally cowardly hunting an unarmed Zebra. The Lion needs to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Before hunting the Zebra the Lion should be de-clawed and have a muzzle strapped around its jaws. It could then get into a kicking contest with the Zebra and the one that can kick like a mule wins. I can't believe nature didn't think of this. Alternatively Lions should only be allowed to hunt full grown bull Elephants in their prime. Jesse Ventura is a genius.

[Home-slicer]

I agree on so many levels. When a Lion takes down a Zebra the Zebra has no chance of taking down the Lion, it's simply defenceless against a Lions razor sharp claws and powerful jaws so in my book a Lion is totally cowardly hunting an unarmed Zebra. The Lion needs to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Before hunting the Zebra the Lion should be de-clawed and have a muzzle strapped around its jaws. It could then get into a kicking contest with the Zebra and the one that can kick like a mule wins. I can't believe nature didn't think of this. Alternatively Lions should only be allowed to hunt full grown bull Elephants in their prime. Jesse Ventura is a genius.

LOL. Good stuff.

[Not a hacker]

I agree on so many levels. When a Lion takes down a Zebra the Zebra has no chance of taking down the Lion, it's simply defenceless against a Lions razor sharp claws and powerful jaws so in my book a Lion is totally cowardly hunting an unarmed Zebra. The Lion needs to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Before hunting the Zebra the Lion should be de-clawed and have a muzzle strapped around its jaws. It could then get into a kicking contest with the Zebra and the one that can kick like a mule wins. I can't believe nature didn't think of this. Alternatively Lions should only be allowed to hunt full grown bull Elephants in their prime. Jesse Ventura is a genius.

Anthropomorphism is almost as ignorant and illogical as speciesism. You show a remarkable insight into both.

[Horseballs]

Dave, the reason I'm asking nicely is because of the utter hypocrisy that surrounds organized religion in general. Belief in a particular religion depends upon the neighborhood you grow up in, so to speak. If you were born in Saudi Arabia, you'd be a Muslim, and eat up all their teachings with a spoon. If you were born in India, you'd be a Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist. If you were born to Jewish parents, you'd be a Jew. The radical Muslim would be the literal Bible interpreter if born in a different zip code. It's a personality flaw if you will.
Each of these religions throughout history believe that they are the one true path to enlightenment. None of them are. They are each social constructs will their own mythologies. Nothing to take seriously, and certainly nothing to justify murder.
On abortion. While it may be disgusting to think that people are killing a bunch of babies, why the need to push a moral agenda on someone else's (maybe bad) decision? Can't you just silently condemn these sinners to hell, or pray for their souls, or pray for Jesus to smite them? Plus, as Nifty once so eloquently put it, "We're ass deep in babies already." I have a child and would never consider aborting a life I helped create. But different people have different reasons for what they feel they must do, and I would never want to step in and make a choice for them.
Then again, I don't like the retarded government to step into people's lives or bedrooms. Like FD, outside or maybe 2 or 3 people, I don't know anyone on the pro-life side of the argument. I also don't know anyone against gay marriage, but apparently most people are against it. 10 billion people eat at McDonald's a year. 50 million adults smoke in the US.

[SoonerBS]

I am surprised you didn't know.

Remember the poor football players that died on the boat in Florida recently? --> http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/9191

This was a very sad situation, so I will treat it with respect, but I believe that of the 4 men, one white man survived, and the three black men died. I understand that at that time, the waters were not warm.

Most Navy Seals are white men with European backgrounds... Norwegian, Swedes, all that upper north white backgrounds; these crackers are able to handle cold water for some reason.

This is not an absolute, but little if any black men, can handle the cold water training it takes to become a Seal... That is all there is to it. That is your answer.

The three black athletes that died on the boat in Florida went into hypothermia much quicker than the white quy, and they just let go after a few hours, and died; that is a case study why black men cannot make it through Navy Seal training.

A friend of mine was in a Safari recently in South Africa and was amazed at how the black dudes guiding the white jokers around had no hats or sunglasses in 100 degree heat...

We all have our strengths and weaknesses and black dudes are not meant for cold water, and honkys are not meant for all day sun.

Blacks are not better or worse, honky ass crackers are not better or worse... we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

As a black man, I hate cold water.

So now you know Dave.

This is interesting, Spank. I watch the Navy Seal training on one of the discovery channels on satellite, and I can honestly tell you that even though I am a white man, this is one white man who wouldn't survive a day of Navy Seal training. Those guys are some of the toughest men I have ever seen. It is simply amazing to witness the amount of physical duress they go through and still stay awake to do more.

[The Purist]

Dave, the reason I'm asking nicely is because of the utter hypocrisy that surrounds organized religion in general. Belief in a particular religion depends upon the neighborhood you grow up in, so to speak. If you were born in Saudi Arabia, you'd be a Muslim, and eat up all their teachings with a spoon. If you were born in India, you'd be a Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist. If you were born to Jewish parents, you'd be a Jew. The radical Muslim would be the literal Bible interpreter if born in a different zip code. It's a personality flaw if you will.
Each of these religions throughout history believe that they are the one true path to enlightenment. None of them are. They are each social constructs will their own mythologies. Nothing to take seriously, and certainly nothing to justify murder.
On abortion. While it may be disgusting to think that people are killing a bunch of babies, why the need to push a moral agenda on someone else's (maybe bad) decision? Can't you just silently condemn these sinners to hell, or pray for their souls, or pray for Jesus to smite them? Plus, as Nifty once so eloquently put it, "We're ass deep in babies already." I have a child and would never consider aborting a life I helped create. But different people have different reasons for what they feel they must do, and I would never want to step in and make a choice for them.
Then again, I don't like the retarded government to step into people's lives or bedrooms. Like FD, outside or maybe 2 or 3 people, I don't know anyone on the pro-life side of the argument. I also don't know anyone against gay marriage, but apparently most people are against it. 10 billion people eat at McDonald's a year. 50 million adults smoke in the US.

Well put...I agree 100%.

[daveperkins]

Anthropomorphism is almost as ignorant and illogical as speciesism. You show a remarkable insight into both.

anthropomorphizers, as a political movement, are interesting... they think of some animals as having human qualities, and thus in their muddled minds these animals deserve some special level of concern... cute bunnies, intelligent dolphins, what have you... fairy tales like Through the Looking Glass and the Velveteen Rabbit have made their mark, as has Disney with his Bambi...

But if animals are to have rights, surely the very first right would be the right to life. This means other animals must starve to death, since animals KILL AND EAT OTHER ANIMALS.

Animal rights is a strange position.

Now if you want to argue that man has an inherent RESPONSIBILITY to shepherd resources, to avoid needless cruelty, and to restrain himself from abuse and excess, I am the first to agree with you. But this argument is one from man's nature, an argument for human decency and common sense, not from the nature of animals.

It is human nature to both have and recognize obligations, and the need to fulfill them.

It is NOT animal nature to have inherent rights, or to have or recognize any obligations. They parent instinctively, but many kill the children of other animals, so parenting is not seen by them as an abstract obligation. and they were eating each other lustily and bloodily long before men, and will be doing so long after men. No kudu ever turned on a pursuing cheetah with hoof raised and demanded his right to stay alive and not be eaten. And no group of kudus ever approached any group of resting cheetahs outside of predatory chases to discuss the fact that the chases were violations of their rights.

In order to have rights, one must surely be capable (or others of his kind on his behalf, in case of impairment) of understanding them, and expressing a demand that his rights be observed.

If animals didn't have 'rights' before humans came along, well then they don't have them now. It must be a thing that is inherent in animals, not dependent on whether there are humans on the planet or not.

If you have a right, you have it. If you don't have a right until a human comes along to violate it, I submit the thinking on this topic is less than clear.

[daveperkins]

This is interesting, Spank. I watch the Navy Seal training on one of the discovery channels on satellite, and I can honestly tell you that even though I am a white man, this is one white man who wouldn't survive a day of Navy Seal training. Those guys are some of the toughest men I have ever seen. It is simply amazing to witness the amount of physical duress they go through and still stay awake to do more.

my friend tells me that, on day one of BUD/S training, they run so much up and down the beach and swim so much in the surf that at the end of that day he says his balls were literally bleeding from sand grinding in his crotch while he was wet...

the nickname of the SEALS for this condition is of course 'wet and sandy'... it is nowhere near as mild or genial a condition as the nickname might indicate.

[edgey]

HB

The Christian right drip with hypocrisy. They are pro life but pro capital punishment, pro life but pro war, pro life but pro gun.

These are issues of science for me. Life begins when it can survive outside the womb. As such i am pro choice up to that point. The world is awash with unwanted children born into a life of misery and abuse destined only to become abusers. There are not enough decent foster/adoptive parents to take up the slack from the great unwashed who do not understand contraception.

The trouble with the extreme left and right is they are not prepared to reflect on the issues and answer them without dogmatic bollocks dictating the response. As i said, ban all organised religion and the world becomes a much happier place overnight.

Edgey

[edgey]

Sooner cited tens of millions of abortions since the Jane Roe decision. I would bet any amount of money that the percentage of black children aborted exceeds the nation's population percentage of black people (somewhere around 13%) by a factor of at least three..

94.96% of all statistics are made up on the spot - Example in case

People by the thousands are travelling to Africa or Romania to adopt. I guess because those people can't afford abortions..

Not that they cant afford, more often they dont have the health care in place (much of Africa) OR the Catholic Church have indoctrinated these poor souls into believeing abortion is a mortal sin OR the state have outlawed abortion (hence why so many girls from Ireland come to the UK for an abortion) or lunatics bomb abortion centres to intimidate women from exercising their legal rights (USA)

A shame we don't have more American babies available for that.

People go to Africa/Romania for many reasons but it isnt that children are not desperately waiting for adoption in the USA/UK. People go to these 3rd world countrys for many reasons inc publicity (Madonna, Jolie/Pitt etc) to avoid the rigorous checks that are done on prospective adoptive parents in the USA/UK or because they feel they are doing some greater good helping disadvantaged 3rd world kids.

Edgey

[edgey]

surely one can discuss, among gentlemen, the idea of too-jolly rogering without un-Christian overtones or intolerance....

Intolerance of h0mosexuality is the preserve of organised religion, until of course the TV evangelist is caught out banging a little boy or the Catholic priest is ass raping the choir boy and the Pope covers it up.

Hypocrisy

Edgey

[Horseballs]

94.96% of all statistics are made up on the spot - Example in case




Not that they cant afford, more often they dont have the health care in place (much of Africa) OR the Catholic Church have indoctrinated these poor souls into believeing abortion is a mortal sin OR the state have outlawed abortion (hence why so many girls from Ireland come to the UK for an abortion) or lunatics bomb abortion centres to intimidate women from exercising their legal rights (USA)



People go to Africa/Romania for many reasons but it isnt that children are not desperately waiting for adoption in the USA/UK. People go to these 3rd world countrys for many reasons inc publicity (Madonna, Jolie/Pitt etc) to avoid the rigorous checks that are done on prospective adoptive parents in the USA/UK or because they feel they are doing some greater good helping disadvantaged 3rd world kids.

Edgey

See Dave. This is why I was asking you to stay out of religion/politics on GR. I was trying to protect you since these topics have turned out bad for you in the past. Not from a right or wrong perspective, from a gets too emotionally involved and writes manifesto length posts perspective. I was looking out for your well-being. Or at least trying to keep you from getting carpal tunnel.
Like many of the great prophets of the past, I have an uncanny ability to interpret the future, based upon my knowledge of the past and the human nature of the present participants.

[edgey]

This might help you understand it a bit more:

"Since the decision of Roe vs. Wade in 1973 up until 2005, 37,241,483 infants had been put to death through abortion. A total death toll of American soldiers in ever war, insurgency and police action since the revolutionary war comes to 1,311,252. That also includes those who died through avenue of disease and natural causes during these conflicts."

Those so called "nuts" with the pictures are trying to get some very calloused individuals to consider the fact that they ARE extinguishing human life whenever they get an abortion. The 37,241,483 was up to 2005.

There is too much evidence towards the proof of a fetus being alive and functioning with life to discard it as just "tissue." I agree with Dave, liberals that have approved of, and practiced abortion in the 20th century, are your biggest murderers bar none. Don't be blaming the Christians and religion for all the wars and mass murders in history . . . . .

When in doubt use emotive and inflamatory words like PUT TO DEATH, MASS MURDER. You cannot put to death that which is not capable of independant life.

In the name of all thats holy move into the 21st century

[edgey]

See Dave. This is why I was asking you to stay out of religion/politics on GR. I was trying to protect you since these topics have turned out bad for you in the past. Not from a right or wrong perspective, from a gets too emotionally involved and writes manifesto length posts perspective. I was looking out for your well-being. Or at least trying to keep you from getting carpal tunnel.
Like many of the great prophets of the past, I have an uncanny ability to interpret the future, based upon my knowledge of the past and the human nature of the present participants.

The problem with the religious right (like most extremists) is they dont like any form of intellectual discourse to challenge their dogmatic beliefs. Science, facts, debate, tollerance and freedom of choice are as difficult for christians to accept as they are for muslims.

Different sides of the same coin

Edgey

[Home-slicer]

See Dave. This is why I was asking you to stay out of religion/politics on GR. I was trying to protect you since these topics have turned out bad for you in the past. Not from a right or wrong perspective, from a gets too emotionally involved and writes manifesto length posts perspective. I was looking out for your well-being. Or at least trying to keep you from getting carpal tunnel.
Like many of the great prophets of the past, I have an uncanny ability to interpret the future, based upon my knowledge of the past and the human nature of the present participants.

I'm just pissed that BossHogg is racking up century threads with Larry-like efficiency. I would start a random politics/religion thread in the non golf forum, but I'm convinced none of you playah hatin, cetury thread cockblockers would post on it. Could someone else do the honor? You have to figure any outsider that hits this site looking for long drive chat is going to be turned off and flee before we have a chance to run them off as we see fit.

[daveperkins]

See Dave. This is why I was asking you to stay out of religion/politics on GR. I was trying to protect you since these topics have turned out bad for you in the past. Not from a right or wrong perspective, from a gets too emotionally involved and writes manifesto length posts perspective. I was looking out for your well-being. Or at least trying to keep you from getting carpal tunnel.
Like many of the great prophets of the past, I have an uncanny ability to interpret the future, based upon my knowledge of the past and the human nature of the present participants.

HB, you are a true GR gentleman, enormous testicles and all.

I shall, however, defend myself.... in due time. Right now I actually have some work to do.

:-)

[famousdavis]

Hey guys, I will be competing this weekend in a long drive competitions with my clubs that ya'll gave me hell about ...MOI Intruder 6.5* with a House of Forged Whup n Shaft LT XXX 50". Hopefully I can get a video from this weekend and post it on youtube or something for you guys to see. Then you can see what 290 and pretty muscular is...LOL Wish me luck and hopefully I can come home with the trophy. Sorry I haven't been around much to enjoy ya'lls company. I have been pretty busy setting up the company and training for the competition.

Jason Godwin
Philippians 4:13
"I do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
"Yes I am a Christian and I will not be moved" (JG)

i bet I can bench press more than you

[edgey]

i bet I can bench press more than you

But can you squat more than Spank, and where are the pictures of your calves?

Edgey

[famousdavis]

But can you squat more than Spank, and where are the pictures of your calves?

Edgey

I have to use the squat machine because my lower back acts up now and again. I would never max out on squat. Anyone who does is crazy.

[SoonerBS]

When in doubt use emotive and inflamatory words like PUT TO DEATH, MASS MURDER. You cannot put to death that which is not capable of independant life.

In the name of all thats holy move into the 21st century

Whenever I can look at a sonogram of a fetus after it is a month old and distinguish all it's humanlike features, complete with a beating heart, it's life to me.

Edgey, unlike Dave, I prefer not to waste my time trying to prove to you something you are not going to accept, so I will not. However, I can promise you you will not convince me otherwise either, I know too much about the process.

Have a good day.

[famousdavis]

Whenever I can look at a sonogram of a fetus after it is a month old and distinguish all it's humanlike features, complete with a beating heart, it's life to me.

Edgey, unlike Dave, I prefer not to waste my time trying to prove to you something you are not going to accept, so I will not. However, I can promise you you will not convince me otherwise either, I know too much about the process.

Have a good day.

I agree that it's a life or at least a potential life. Obviously it can't function on it's own. The question is whether or not your think a woman should be forced to have it. Would you agree to hold one of her arms down while she's forced to give birth?

[edgey]

I agree that it's a life or at least a potential life. Obviously it can't function on it's own. The question is whether or not your think a woman should be forced to have it. Would you agree to hold one of her arms down while she's forced to give birth?

Like most christian right Sooner believes in the sanctity of life so much he could probably justify the bombing and murder of doctors who carry out abortion as a necessary evil.

I suppose he at least carries a Thriver(tm)

Edgey

[SoonerBS]

The problem with the religious right (like most extremists) is they dont like any form of intellectual discourse to challenge their dogmatic beliefs. Science, facts, debate, tollerance and freedom of choice are as difficult for christians to accept as they are for muslims.

Different sides of the same coin

Edgey

Come on, Edgey, this kind of bullshite looks good to the unintelligent and misinformed, but it will not hold water whenever you look at the simple truth.

Simple Truth: You are lumping apples, oranges, nuts, candy bars and t-bone steaks together here and calling it all nutrition. However, there are certain foods that are much more nutritious than others. You can't lump all Christians together and generalize about them. You can't lump all Muslims together and generalize about them. Nor can you lump all atheists together and generalize about them.

You have a hard time accepting Christianity . . . . . that's fine. However, TRUE CHRISTIANS are not suppose to have a scientific reason to believe and practice what they do, they are suppose to strictly follow the Bible by faith because they believe that it is the authoritative word of their God. There are tons of people calling themselves Christians in the world, but there are very few who actually follow the Bible strictly. Therefore, I do not deem them to be TRUE Christians. Then, for those who do, you have the "interpretation" dilemma. (For example see some of the debates Spank and I have had in the "non-topic forum.") To make a long statement short here -- all Christians are not the same, so quit lumping them together to make general statements.

The same goes for the Muslims, there are a few who hold strictly to the teachings of Muhhamad and the Koran. Then, there are those who want to "pick and choose" the parts of the Koran to define their religion (like a lot of Muslims that live in the United States and say that the Muslim religion is not a violent religion). Once again, there are many kinds of Muslims, but only a handful are TRUE Muslims, so don't lump them altogether.

Their are atheists who exist for no other reason but to try and make the Christians look stupid. There are those who exist because they do not want to be involved in an organized religion. There are some who actually exist because they absolutely do not believe that their is a spiritual realm or that any God exists (these are TRUE atheist). All atheists are not the same, don't lump them together.

See how specific debate can get? I don't like generalized debate. That is largely why I don't comment on every little thought that gets posted religiously or politically on this forum. I like the debate sometimes if I have TIME to do it, but most of the time I like to play golf.

[edgey]

Come on, Edgey, this kind of bullshite looks good to the unintelligent and misinformed, but it will not hold water whenever you look at the simple truth.

Simple Truth: You are lumping apples, oranges, nuts, candy bars and t-bone steaks together here and calling it all nutrition. However, there are certain foods that are much more nutritious than others. You can't lump all Christians together and generalize about them. You can't lump all Muslims together and generalize about them. Nor can you lump all atheists together and generalize about them.

You have a hard time accepting Christianity . . . . . that's fine. However, TRUE CHRISTIANS are not suppose to have a scientific reason to believe and practice what they do, they are suppose to strictly follow the Bible by faith because they believe that it is the authoritative word of their God. There are tons of people calling themselves Christians in the world, but there are very few who actually follow the Bible strictly. Therefore, I do not deem them to be TRUE Christians. Then, for those who do, you have the "interpretation" dilemma. (For example see some of the debates Spank and I have had in the "non-topic forum.") To make a long statement short here -- all Christians are not the same, so quit lumping them together to make general statements.

The same goes for the Muslims, there are a few who hold strictly to the teachings of Muhhamad and the Koran. Then, there are those who want to "pick and choose" the parts of the Koran to define their religion (like a lot of Muslims that live in the United States and say that the Muslim religion is not a violent religion). Once again, there are many kinds of Muslims, but only a handful are TRUE Muslims, so don't lump them altogether.

Their are atheists who exist for no other reason but to try and make the Christians look stupid. There are those who exist because they do not want to be involved in an organized religion. There are some who actually exist because they absolutely do not believe that their is a spiritual realm or that any God exists (these are TRUE atheist). All atheists are not the same, don't lump them together.

See how specific debate can get? I don't like generalized debate. That is largely why I don't comment on every little thought that gets posted religiously or politically on this forum. I like the debate sometimes if I have TIME to do it, but most of the time I like to play golf.

Sooner i

Here is THE simple truth. If you read my post you will see i lump together only the EXTREMIST religous views that promote intolerance, abuse or violence to get their way.

I respect your view to feel abortion is wrong or that gay marriage is wrong because the Bible says so.

I F UCKING object when that view is forced on the rest of us who dont accept it. When those views are pushed onto the silent majority on the back of bombings, intimidation of women, abuse of gays and intolerance of others i will stand up.

If you or anyone wants to ban abortion or gay marriage or gay clergy campaign on the subject and seek a mandate from the people. Problem is the silent majority dont hold these views and as such would not vote for such an agenda. What seems to happen then is like most extremeists they believe we dont know whats best for us and we need to be forced into their position by direct action.

The Bible is a fine book but is a product of its time. There is no place for intolerance in a modern world and no place for those who would promote that intolerance on the back of "the word of God"

That is the simple truth

Edgey

[Kiwi Player]

On abortion. While it may be disgusting to think that people are killing a bunch of babies, why the need to push a moral agenda on someone else's (maybe bad) decision? Can't you just silently condemn these sinners to hell, or pray for their souls, or pray for Jesus to smite them? Plus, as Nifty once so eloquently put it, "We're ass deep in babies already." I have a child and would never consider aborting a life I helped create. But different people have different reasons for what they feel they must do, and I would never want to step in and make a choice for them.

Well said but would you feel differently if you banged some skank ho and got her pregnant?

I know a guy married with 3 kids. He was going through a rough patch in his marriage and he moved out for a while to try and 'work things out'. In a drunken night out he bedded some skank and got her pregnant and she absolutely insisted that she was having HIS baby.

His life has been hell ever since.

[noshuz]

.............

[Horseballs]

Well said but would you feel differently if you banged some skank ho and got her pregnant?

I know a guy married with 3 kids. He was going through a rough patch in his marriage and he moved out for a while to try and 'work things out'. In a drunken night out he bedded some skank and got her pregnant and she absolutely insisted that she was having HIS baby.

His life has been hell ever since.

I'm not sure. Sure is nice to have that option, even if it means I go straight to hell in the afterlife (or nothing happens, or I get reincarnated as a dung beetle, or I only get half the amount of virgins in the afterlife, or I am forced into servitude on some alien planet).

[Riverologist]

Well said but would you feel differently if you banged some skank ho and got her pregnant?

I know a guy married with 3 kids. He was going through a rough patch in his marriage and he moved out for a while to try and 'work things out'. In a drunken night out he bedded some skank and got her pregnant and she absolutely insisted that she was having HIS baby.

His life has been hell ever since.

When you act like a dirtbag skid , dirtbag skid things happen to you. Banging some dirty is how you "work things out"? Make the bed, lay in it.

Besides....what's wrong with a good 'ol fashion blow job?

[Kiwi Player]

When you act like a dirtbag skid , dirtbag skid things happen to you. Banging some dirty is how you "work things out"? Make the bed, lay in it.

Besides....what's wrong with a good 'ol fashion blow job?

I agree in principle, he made his own bed. Nothing wrong with a good ol fashion blow job but maybe she just wasn't a blow job kind of gal?

[SoonerBS]

Sooner i

Here is THE simple truth. If you read my post you will see i lump together only the EXTREMIST religous views that promote intolerance, abuse or violence to get their way.

I respect your view to feel abortion is wrong or that gay marriage is wrong because the Bible says so.

I F UCKING object when that view is forced on the rest of us who dont accept it. When those views are pushed onto the silent majority on the back of bombings, intimidation of women, abuse of gays and intolerance of others i will stand up.

If you or anyone wants to ban abortion or gay marriage or gay clergy campaign on the subject and seek a mandate from the people. Problem is the silent majority dont hold these views and as such would not vote for such an agenda. What seems to happen then is like most extremeists they believe we dont know whats best for us and we need to be forced into their position by direct action.

The Bible is a fine book but is a product of its time. There is no place for intolerance in a modern world and no place for those who would promote that intolerance on the back of "the word of God"

That is the simple truth

Edgey

Since you are being technical in pointing out the "Extremist" bit, then allow me to point out that I have never claimed to be a Bible thumper, nor have I said "gay marriage is wrong" according to the Bible. I HAVE been well trained and educated in the Bible as well as other world religions and have expansive knowledge in that area.

But, here is the deal, "anti-abortion" and "anti-gay marriage" is not just a Christian subject. I disagree with both because of physiological and mental reasons. Physiologically and ethically it is inconsistent to put a death sentence on a man or woman who intentionally goes out and kills somebody in our society, but let a woman go scott free after aborting her 3 month year old baby. Also, have you ever counseled with women who 3 or 4 years later are having traumatic psychological reactions to what they have always felt was wrong to do, but way too convenient at the time? It's a sad ordeal, Edgey. The human mind can only rationalize what it knows to be wrong for so long before it starts eating a person up inside.

Gay marriages without children involved are just legal dick sucking sessions for all I am concerned, but whenever it involves children, there is a great deal of confusion and psychiatric effects that take place. Why put a child through all of that just to suck dick or lick muff?

There are plenty of reasons other than Bible reasons and I have to counsel the aftereffects of these acts all the time, Edgey. So, you'll have to excuse me if I end up formulating an opinion based on my ongoing experiences instead of my Bible knowledge . . . . . .