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  1. #1
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    A case of the shanks! Is it similar to the yips?

    I have hit the odd shank here and there but I am pleased to say it has never really been an ongoing issue. But on Friday I played with a guy who had a mid round meltdown and shanked almost EVERY iron shot he hit from about the 7th hole onwards. It was unbelievable! He is a guy I have played with quite frequently before who normally plays reasonably solid golf and is usually a low 80's shooter and a 70's shooter on a good day. On the 7th hole we both hit reasonable drives down the middle and were facing a 7 or 8 iron approach. I blocked mine right but he hit a terrible shank into the trees. A couple of holes later he shanked another approach, then again, and again and again. I couldn't believe it. Right up to the final hole he was shanking almost EVERY iron shot he played. On the very last hole, a short par 3 requiring only a 9 iron or PW off the tee he even shanked that into the trees. In between he was still hitting reasonable drives and his chipping and putting was still sound. He just couldn't hit a full swing with his irons to save himself.

    I have never witnessed such a bizarre meltdown before. Has anyone else witnessed this type of thing before? Are the shanks a bit like the Yips? i.e. they get between your ears and there is nothing you can do about them?

    On a side note, with the Blades vs Cavity back war raging once again (it's a bit like an endless war where there is never a permanent peace, hostilities just quieten down every now and again before a minor skirmish causes them to flare up once again) I thought it would be appropriate to point out that this guy plays the Taylormade R7 DRAW irons - classic, EASY TO HIT, game improvement, hacker shovels so no excuses there!
    I chose the road less traveled.

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  2. #2
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    I have experienced the shanks more times than I care to remember, and every time they have come completely out of the blue and some times hang around for weeks or months. I don't think in my case they are related to the putting yips as the shanks are a technical issue that you can't put your finger on whereas the yips involve an involuntary twitch of the hands during impact. I never actually got to the bottom of why I was shanking, I just went through a couple f sets of clubs and they slowly went away. There is an old saying that a shank is close ot a good shot so it can be very hard to pinpoint the source of the problem as you feel like you are swinging well.

    I play with a guy in my group who somtimes get's the shanks, but when he get's themn he get's them rigth through the bag and even shanks his chips and pitches. I must admit it is absolutely hilarious watching someone shank chips and even bump and runs from just off the green, you see it but can't quite understand how it's happening. I can't help laughing when he get's them that bad.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    I have experienced the shanks more times than I care to remember, and every time they have come completely out of the blue and some times hang around for weeks or months. I don't think in my case they are related to the putting yips as the shanks are a technical issue that you can't put your finger on whereas the yips involve an involuntary twitch of the hands during impact. I never actually got to the bottom of why I was shanking, I just went through a couple f sets of clubs and they slowly went away. There is an old saying that a shank is close ot a good shot so it can be very hard to pinpoint the source of the problem as you feel like you are swinging well.

    I play with a guy in my group who somtimes get's the shanks, but when he get's themn he get's them rigth through the bag and even shanks his chips and pitches. I must admit it is absolutely hilarious watching someone shank chips and even bump and runs from just off the green, you see it but can't quite understand how it's happening. I can't help laughing when he get's them that bad.
    It's interesting you say that as the guy I was playing with was exactly the same. He kept saying that he felt like he was swinging them well. I wasn't laughing at him at first and kept expecting him to snap out of it and come right but I had to laugh when he shanked the final shot off the tee. It was just the sheer inevitability of it!

    LOL
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    It's interesting you say that as the guy I was playing with was exactly the same. He kept saying that he felt like he was swinging them well. I wasn't laughing at him at first and kept expecting him to snap out of it and come right but I had to laugh when he shanked the final shot off the tee. It was just the sheer inevitability of it!

    LOL
    Unless you've had em you have no idea how soul destroying the shanks can be.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  5. #5
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    I've had the occasional round where I've had them going. It's always early in the season and never lasts for more than one round. Nothing is worse than than the next shot after a shank. Guaranteed flinch about halfway into the downswing resulting in a fat shot, top, or shank.
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  6. #6
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    I've been in shank hell a couple of times. It usually happened with my shorter irons and it's enough to drive you crazy but I noticed a couple of things happening when I got em. One was I was getting my weight too far out on my toes during the downswing. Basically swaying toward the ball. It doesn't take much. Like they say, the difference between a shank and a good shot is about a 1/2 inch. The other thing is easy. It's just standing too close to the ball. He should maybe try just adjusting his setup and address the ball a little more towards the toe. The shanks are EVIL!.....
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshuz
    I've been in shank hell a couple of times. It usually happened with my shorter irons and it's enough to drive you crazy but I noticed a couple of things happening when I got em. One was I was getting my weight too far out on my toes during the downswing. Basically swaying toward the ball. It doesn't take much. Like they say, the difference between a shank and a good shot is about a 1/2 inch. The other thing is easy. It's just standing too close to the ball. He should maybe try just adjusting his setup and address the ball a little more towards the toe. The shanks are EVIL!.....
    When I've had a shanky round, it's because I'm off-plane, not because of anything in the address. The way I actually solve shanks is to stand closer so I can make a more connected arm swing.
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  8. #8
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    I've never had the shanks, but I have witnessed it happening to others. There is a lot of consoling that goes on . . . . . . . "That is about as close as you can get to a perfect swing." It never seems to help though . . . . .
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  9. #9
    I've gotten the shanks many times. It never lasts more than a round, maybe two. I've shared my shank theory before, but I'll reiterate.
    Shanks are caused by small muscle fatigue in the forearms, causing the release to be late, thus, leaving the clubface wide open at impact.
    Whenever I get them, it's usuall after an extended lay off, then beating a ton of balls at the range. My forearms are usually sore the day of or after the shanks. I got them this year after I started lifting weights again. I'd be willing to bet, that just about anytime someone gets the shanks, they are hitting more balls than they have in a long time or have done something strenuous a day or a couple of days before playing. Also, much like fatigue, there is not shite you can do about it.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    I have hit the odd shank here and there but I am pleased to say it has never really been an ongoing issue. But on Friday I played with a guy who had a mid round meltdown and shanked almost EVERY iron shot he hit from about the 7th hole onwards. It was unbelievable! He is a guy I have played with quite frequently before who normally plays reasonably solid golf and is usually a low 80's shooter and a 70's shooter on a good day. On the 7th hole we both hit reasonable drives down the middle and were facing a 7 or 8 iron approach. I blocked mine right but he hit a terrible shank into the trees. A couple of holes later he shanked another approach, then again, and again and again. I couldn't believe it. Right up to the final hole he was shanking almost EVERY iron shot he played. On the very last hole, a short par 3 requiring only a 9 iron or PW off the tee he even shanked that into the trees. In between he was still hitting reasonable drives and his chipping and putting was still sound. He just couldn't hit a full swing with his irons to save himself.

    I have never witnessed such a bizarre meltdown before. Has anyone else witnessed this type of thing before? Are the shanks a bit like the Yips? i.e. they get between your ears and there is nothing you can do about them?

    On a side note, with the Blades vs Cavity back war raging once again (it's a bit like an endless war where there is never a permanent peace, hostilities just quieten down every now and again before a minor skirmish causes them to flare up once again) I thought it would be appropriate to point out that this guy plays the Taylormade R7 DRAW irons - classic, EASY TO HIT, game improvement, hacker shovels so no excuses there!
    I got the shanks when I was 18 years old and in college. I was ready to be on the golf team but I couldn't because every single golf shot I hit (with the exception of the driver) was a shank. I would go on the range and every iron I hit was a shank. I literally almost quit playing golf. It is in no way similar to the yips. It has nothing to do with some kind of mental meltdown. It's a swing flaw where you are hitting the golf ball too close to the hosel. You brain is telling you that you're hitting it off the toe and you will try all kinds of remedies that make the situation worse, not better.

    Anyway, after 2 weeks of hitting shanks on the range I went to an instructor and this is what he did: He gave me an 8 iron and he teed up the ball just slightly. He strengthened my grip and made me close the clubface at address. He told me to try as hard as I could to hit a giant hook. The first ball went perfectly straight and then gradually I started hitting big hooks. He told me to put my hands back into their normal position and take the same swing. The result was a perfectly straight shot hit in the middle of the clubface. I never had the shanks again. I have shanked a shot maybe 5 times since then but I know what happened when I did it. If you have the shanks, try what I did above.

    The shank is caused by a lack of hand release and not turning the clubface over right at impact. That's one reason why you see people hit shanks when they're trying to hit a knockdown shot. "Leading with the hosel" is another way to think of it.

  11. #11
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    H

    As the shanking king i feel that this is something i can comment on.

    For me two of the truest things said are from Nosh and HB. I shank because i swing the club too much on my toes. This causes a loss of balance forwards which in turn causes me to losse that arm and chest connection and deliver the club hosel first. The cure as HB said is to stand closer to the ball which in turn makes me stand tall and less on my toes.

    My problem with blades/player CB is have suffered very bad shanks with them. I have NEVER shanked a BB2002/Wide Sole club (although i have shanked a Ping Rapture). I suspect this is the bit thats in the head.

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  12. #12
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    I remember one episode several years ago when I had a case of the shanks on the driving range that just wouldn't stop.

    I had completed a process of moving into a different house, and hadn't played golf for about 3 weeks. With all the lifting I had done in the move, I was thinking, "Wow...my arms are stronger. I'll bet I can hit it farther with less effort....."
    I couldn't do anything but shank for at least 20-30 shots. I tried everything I knew; changed from mid-long irons to short irons and even wedges. No difference. I tried taking 3/4 and even 1/2 swings; still shanking. It was awful. There was a guy I knew but had never played with right behind me, and I am sure he could see everything that was going on, which wasn't helping.

    Finally, I got my rhythm and swing back, and that was the end of that. The guy behind me has never asked me to join him on the course.......
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  13. #13
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    Should we refer to you as Shankapottomus for a while?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home-slicer
    I've gotten the shanks many times. It never lasts more than a round, maybe two. I've shared my shank theory before, but I'll reiterate.
    Shanks are caused by small muscle fatigue in the forearms, causing the release to be late, thus, leaving the clubface wide open at impact.
    Whenever I get them, it's usuall after an extended lay off, then beating a ton of balls at the range. My forearms are usually sore the day of or after the shanks. I got them this year after I started lifting weights again. I'd be willing to bet, that just about anytime someone gets the shanks, they are hitting more balls than they have in a long time or have done something strenuous a day or a couple of days before playing. Also, much like fatigue, there is not shite you can do about it.
    Now you mention it this guy hit a large (over 100 balls) bucket of balls before the round. That's far too many before a round IMO. I hit about half a small bucket i.e. about 20 balls and that was plenty for me.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  15. #15
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    Obviously this thread needs to be closed as soon as possible before it caused irreparable damage to all who have posted... I don't even like being near someone who has that affliction for fear of it being contagious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul
    Obviously this thread needs to be closed as soon as possible before it caused irreparable damage to all who have posted... I don't even like being near someone who has that affliction for fear of it being contagious.
    I dunno, I think reading any of Pingmans gibberish about loading PPT 3 and releasing the 4th accumulator will do me more harm so I try to avoid reading those.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    I dunno, I think reading any of Pingmans gibberish about loading PPT 3 and releasing the 4th accumulator will do me more harm so I try to avoid reading those.
    At least it was genuine frontier gibberish.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    I dunno, I think reading any of Pingmans gibberish about loading PPT 3 and releasing the 4th accumulator will do me more harm so I try to avoid reading those.
    I've attached what I've deemed to be the most concise and easy to understand description of the golf swing. All you have to do it look at it and then go play.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    I've attached what I've deemed to be the most concise and easy to understand description of the golf swing. All you have to do it look at it and then go play.
    Do those numbers represent the 11th to 16th accumulators?

    Or maybe it's just the 11th & 14th accumulators and PPTS 12 & 15? I always forget which is which.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Do those numbers represent the 11th to 16th accumulators?

    Or maybe it's just the 11th & 14th accumulators and PPTS 12 & 15? I always forget which is which.
    Accumulation theory went to the wayside and is now thought of as "gimmicky" by those in the know. The picture I attached has withstood the test of time and is thought of as the "key ingredient" in any sound golf swing. Only a few top PGA Tour teaching professionals understand the concept. They meet once ever six months in an unspecified location...very similar to the Knights Templar. Inside the attachment is a code that, when uncovered, actually makes it impossible to shoot over 80 regardless of the course or conditions. Some of the long time members of the cult referr to it as reverse gear theory. It all makes perfect sense if you really think about it.

  21. #21
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    shank doesn't generally come from a open face at all... the #1 cause of a shank is the sweet spot off plane..

    usually the face is dead closed... because of a roundhousing right forearm meaning on the backswing or downswing the right elbow has gotten too far behind your right side (look on the side of your shirt see that seam the r elbow should not be behind that...) it's more of a plane issue than actually clubface problem...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingman360
    shank doesn't generally come from a open face at all... the #1 cause of a shank is the sweet spot off plane..

    usually the face is dead closed... because of a roundhousing right forearm meaning on the backswing or downswing the right elbow has gotten too far behind your right side (look on the side of your shirt see that seam the r elbow should not be behind that...) it's more of a plane issue than actually clubface problem...
    You are absolutley wrong on this. 99% of shanking occurs because the clubface is open at impact and you aren't releasing your hands through impact. Of course the sweet spot is off plane if you're shanking it. In addition, the over the top move is more of a culprit than getting "stuck" like you said.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    You are absolutley wrong on this. 99% of shanking occurs because the clubface is open at impact and you aren't releasing your hands through impact. Of course the sweet spot is off plane if you're shanking it. In addition, the over the top move is more of a culprit than getting "stuck" like you said.
    This definition is the one I always thought. It's what happens to me. That's why I mentioned too much weight on the toes or swaying towards the ball......
    Definition: A shank is a mis-hit that is so bad the golfer makes contact with the ball with a part of the club other than the clubface. In a shank, it is the hosel of the club that first contacts the ball. Since the hosel is rounded, the ball might shoot off in just about any direction with various spins. But most commonly, a shank results in a ball that shoots out to the right (for a right-hander) at a severe angle.
    Someone who shanks a lot might be said to "have the shanks" or to be "shanking it." A shank is one of the worst mis-hits in golf; in fact, many golfers don't even like saying the word out loud.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    You are absolutley wrong on this. 99% of shanking occurs because the clubface is open at impact and you aren't releasing your hands through impact. Of course the sweet spot is off plane if you're shanking it. In addition, the over the top move is more of a culprit than getting "stuck" like you said.
    Don't agree famous- a true shank is where the hosel strikes the ball - not having an open clubface. Main cause - weight leans forward into the ball in the downswing thus bringing the hosel closer to the ball. Having said that, i'm speaking from experience cause when i tried stack and tilt i adopted a more bent over stance and if i didn't get my hips sliding forward on the downswing my weight was right over my toes and i shanked shitloads
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshuz
    This definition is the one I always thought. It's what happens to me. That's why I mentioned too much weight on the toes or swaying towards the ball......
    Definition: A shank is a mis-hit that is so bad the golfer makes contact with the ball with a part of the club other than the clubface. In a shank, it is the hosel of the club that first contacts the ball. Since the hosel is rounded, the ball might shoot off in just about any direction with various spins. But most commonly, a shank results in a ball that shoots out to the right (for a right-hander) at a severe angle.
    Someone who shanks a lot might be said to "have the shanks" or to be "shanking it." A shank is one of the worst mis-hits in golf; in fact, many golfers don't even like saying the word out loud.
    Ding ding ding.

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  26. #26
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    I can say that my shanking is always a result of the ball coming off the hosel, I don't know if the face is open or closed but as they feel like good swings I would say niether. And like edgey all my bouts of shankasitis have occurred when I was playing muscle back blades. I hit the ocassional shank with other clubs from time to time, but I usually don't shank more than once and fix it by the next shot. Shanking is the main reason I will never bag a set of muscleback blades, the psychological scar tissue is too severe to overcome.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rooboy
    Don't agree famous- a true shank is where the hosel strikes the ball - not having an open clubface. Main cause - weight leans forward into the ball in the downswing thus bringing the hosel closer to the ball. Having said that, i'm speaking from experience cause when i tried stack and tilt i adopted a more bent over stance and if i didn't get my hips sliding forward on the downswing my weight was right over my toes and i shanked shitloads
    The hosel strikes the ball BECAUSE of the open clubface. You're leading with the hosel and you shank it. Think about how hard it would be to hit a shank if the clubface was closed. Come on people.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    I can say that my shanking is always a result of the ball coming off the hosel, I don't know if the face is open or closed but as they feel like good swings I would say niether. And like edgey all my bouts of shankasitis have occurred when I was playing muscle back blades. I hit the ocassional shank with other clubs from time to time, but I usually don't shank more than once and fix it by the next shot. Shanking is the main reason I will never bag a set of muscleback blades, the psychological scar tissue is too severe to overcome.
    That's because the sweet spot on blades is nearer the hosel, isn't it? Shanks are the result of the hosel hitting the ball.
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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    At least it was genuine frontier gibberish.
    I think he said, "The sheriff is near!"
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    That's because the sweet spot on blades is nearer the hosel, isn't it? Shanks are the result of the hosel hitting the ball.
    I don't know why I shank blades, but not CBs. It may have something to do with the hosel being more pronounced on blades and the sweetspot being near the heel, but more probably from some swing fault that I have never been able to identify.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  31. #31
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    My infrequent shanks are with wedges. None of the offenders are in my bag anymore. The first tournament I ever played in was a junior golf club event and I was about 11 and I dead 90 degree shanked my persimmon driver nailing one of my compeitor's sisters in the shin. The club banned me from tournament golf competition for years.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    The hosel strikes the ball BECAUSE of the open clubface. You're leading with the hosel and you shank it. Think about how hard it would be to hit a shank if the clubface was closed. Come on people.
    Agree that you are unlikely to hit a shank with a closed clubface but you could definitely still hit a shank with a square clubface if you are too close to the ball. An open clubface will only lead to a block if you still hit it out of the grooves (versus the hosel).

    I very rarely hit shanks but unfortunately hit blocks quite frequently!
    I chose the road less traveled.

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  33. #33
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    Wow, I haven't had shanks for as long as I remember. Went out today and got 70 balls at the range; shanked 60 of them, but hit my drives okay.

    I am just going to forget about, it and forget it ever happened. Getting another lesson...

    Big reason was that I brought the ball in about 5 inches closer because it worked for my driver, but the irons were apparently fine, as I thought about it afterward; I cannot hit irons well, though.

    Then I went home and was looking at my address position and discovered that the toe of my clubhead was a half inch off the ground at address; that was an eye opener, so I am changing the way I stand at the ball...

    With a tripod and video coming soon, I can watch my swing better.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanqdoggie
    Wow, I haven't had shanks for as long as I remember. Went out today and got 70 balls at the range; shanked 60 of them, but hit my drives okay.

    I am just going to forget about, it and forget it ever happened. Getting another lesson...

    Big reason was that I brought the ball in about 5 inches closer because it worked for my driver, but the irons were apparently fine, as I thought about it afterward; I cannot hit irons well, though.

    Then I went home and was looking at my address position and discovered that the toe of my clubhead was a half inch off the ground at address; that was an eye opener, so I am changing the way I stand at the ball...

    With a tripod and video coming soon, I can watch my swing better.
    Does this mean you're going to honor us with a video of your swing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul
    Does this mean you're going to honor us with a video of your swing?
    Spank is a man! He is not afraid to show us a video of his swing.ays it is forthcoming, you can bet on it, b!tches!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    The hosel strikes the ball BECAUSE of the open clubface. You're leading with the hosel and you shank it. Think about how hard it would be to hit a shank if the clubface was closed. Come on people.
    Yes, but the ball is struck by the hosel, not the open face of the club. I can attest to this from seeing a ball mark on the hosel.........not QUITE the usual place for a ball mark......
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Spank is a man! He is not afraid to show us a video of his swing.ays it is forthcoming, you can bet on it, b!tches!!

    I have several people that want to kill me, and bring it on b!tches!

    Maybe from the ass down, or from the back... maybe with a gorilla mask on, so you can see just the swing... something like my avatar, maybe.
    It's not my fault God made me this beautiful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorkman53
    Yes, but the ball is struck by the hosel, not the open face of the club. I can attest to this from seeing a ball mark on the hosel.........not QUITE the usual place for a ball mark......
    OK, now I think you guys are messing with me. I am fully aware that a shank is caused by the ball hitting the hosel. That's what I've been saying all along. Dis' crazy.

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    When I got the shanks I never felt like the face was wide open at impact and as some one else said earlier, I only did it with 9i and down....stoopid game
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    FamousDavis is right...and so are Pingman and Dorkman, but none of you completely understand why.

    All clubfaces rotate open on the backswing because of the way the arms and elbows fold. Most people think that the clubface rotates around the hosel...untrue. The hosel rotates around the sweetspot...ground a wedge on the floor and twist the handle, the sweetspot stays in the center and the hosel rotates. The more open the clubface, the closer the hosel is to the ball.

    A flat swing with a pronounced in to out move makes shanks much more likely. I have never seen an over the top swinger hit a shank (though if they did it would likely be due to a too closed clubface). For and In-to-Out swinger, the clubface must be open to the target line in order to start the ball out to the right (so it has room to draw back left). Better players hit the ball from the inside and better players are more likely to hit shanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    FamousDavis is right...and so are Pingman and Dorkman, but none of you completely understand why.

    All clubfaces rotate open on the backswing because of the way the arms and elbows fold. Most people think that the clubface rotates around the hosel...untrue. The hosel rotates around the sweetspot...ground a wedge on the floor and twist the handle, the sweetspot stays in the center and the hosel rotates. The more open the clubface, the closer the hosel is to the ball.

    A flat swing with a pronounced in to out move makes shanks much more likely. I have never seen an over the top swinger hit a shank (though if they did it would likely be due to a too closed clubface). For and In-to-Out swinger, the clubface must be open to the target line in order to start the ball out to the right (so it has room to draw back left). Better players hit the ball from the inside and better players are more likely to hit shanks.
    Nope.

    When the club is resting on the ground and you spin it, the active point of rotation is that part of the sole that is touching the ground (the sweet spot is generally about 1/8" - 1/4" in towards the hosel from the center of the sole).

    When the club is in your hand and not touching anything else, the active point of rotation is the longitudinal axis of shaft and, by default, the hosel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_h
    Nope.

    When the club is resting on the ground and you spin it, the active point of rotation is that part of the sole that is touching the ground (the sweet spot is generally about 1/8" - 1/4" in towards the hosel from the center of the sole).

    When the club is in your hand and not touching anything else, the active point of rotation is the longitudinal axis of shaft and, by default, the hosel.
    That's so wierd. I was just about to say this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    That's so wierd. I was just about to say this.
    I wasn't gonna say it but I was thinking it! But I do like the part of TP's post that said the better players get the shanks..........Damn I'm good.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshuz
    I wasn't gonna say it but I was thinking it! But I do like the part of TP's post that said the better players get the shanks..........Damn I'm good.....
    Are you sure he didn't say that the better players get the skanks?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    Are you sure he didn't say that the better players get the skanks?
    Only if you're a pro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_h
    Nope.

    When the club is resting on the ground and you spin it, the active point of rotation is that part of the sole that is touching the ground (the sweet spot is generally about 1/8" - 1/4" in towards the hosel from the center of the sole).

    When the club is in your hand and not touching anything else, the active point of rotation is the longitudinal axis of shaft and, by default, the hosel.
    You're my boy Jeff, but you are wrong.

    Go pick up a wedge right now and dangle it straight down (not touching floor). Spin the handle to the right, and the shaft will rotate to where the sweetspot used to be. Doesn't have to be a wedge...any iron will do this.

    Sometimes, I even get annoyed with myself for being right all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    You're my boy Jeff, but you are wrong.

    Go pick up a wedge right now and dangle it straight down (not touching floor). Spin the handle to the right, and the shaft will rotate to where the sweetspot used to be. Doesn't have to be a wedge...any iron will do this.

    Sometimes, I even get annoyed with myself for being right all the time.
    I see what you're saying TP but doing that is using JUST the weight of the club but when we swing we're manipulating the club with our hands, arms and body with the connection being the shaft/grip of the club leaving the pivot point or axis....the shaft.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    You're my boy Jeff, but you are wrong.

    Go pick up a wedge right now and dangle it straight down (not touching floor). Spin the handle to the right, and the shaft will rotate to where the sweetspot used to be. Doesn't have to be a wedge...any iron will do this.

    Sometimes, I even get annoyed with myself for being right all the time.
    It rotates around it's center of gravity but I'm not so sure this is the sweet spot of the face. I'm not even sure one has anything to do with the other becuase a club is not used while hanging vertically and probably has nothing to do with hitting shanks.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    You're my boy Jeff, but you are wrong.

    Go pick up a wedge right now and dangle it straight down (not touching floor). Spin the handle to the right, and the shaft will rotate to where the sweetspot used to be. Doesn't have to be a wedge...any iron will do this.

    Sometimes, I even get annoyed with myself for being right all the time.
    YES!!!! finally someone who understands sweetspot being one plane!!!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    The hosel strikes the ball BECAUSE of the open clubface. You're leading with the hosel and you shank it. Think about how hard it would be to hit a shank if the clubface was closed. Come on people.

    If you did manage this, you'd have to hit the outside of the ball with the portion of the hosel closest to you. This would send the ball right at you! Possibly breaking your ankle, or worse, causing a severe testicular injury!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshuz
    I see what you're saying TP but doing that is using JUST the weight of the club but when we swing we're manipulating the club with our hands, arms and body with the connection being the shaft/grip of the club leaving the pivot point or axis....the shaft.
    no.... we're not...

    or at least we shouldn't...

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    You're my boy Jeff, but you are wrong.

    Go pick up a wedge right now and dangle it straight down (not touching floor). Spin the handle to the right, and the shaft will rotate to where the sweetspot used to be. Doesn't have to be a wedge...any iron will do this.

    Sometimes, I even get annoyed with myself for being right all the time.
    You misunderstand the physics at work.

    When you do what you just described, the club is "rotating" about the center of gravity / center of mass along an imaginary line extending straight down from the point of suspension.

    That is a condition of static equilibrium, not dynamics.

    As a function of the golf swing, the club has additional forces exerted on it aside from gravity and stationary pivot points. The axis of rotation is through the arms / wrists of the golfer and the shaft of the club. Moment of Inertia is figured by the lever arm of the clubhead (perpendicular to the axis of rotation) as defined by the location of the CG.

    A better illustration of the forces at play is to hold a golf club straight out in front of you (or hovering at address) using your regular grip. Rotate the club with your forearms and wrists like you would during a real swing. The clubhead fans left to right about the axis defined by the shaft and your forearms. The golf club is now part of a larger system and its individual static characteristics, while still present, are diminished to the point of irrelevance by the dynamics of the system.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingman360
    YES!!!! finally someone who understands sweetspot being one plane!!!
    Does this change when the shaft is under load of the swing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_h
    You misunderstand the physics at work.

    When you do what you just described, the club is "rotating" about the center of gravity / center of mass along an imaginary line extending straight down from the point of suspension.

    That is a condition of static equilibrium, not dynamics.

    As a function of the golf swing, the club has additional forces exerted on it aside from gravity and stationary pivot points. The axis of rotation is through the arms / wrists of the golfer and the shaft of the club. Moment of Inertia is figured by the lever arm of the clubhead (perpendicular to the axis of rotation) as defined by the location of the CG.

    A better illustration of the forces at play is to hold a golf club straight out in front of you (or hovering at address) using your regular grip. Rotate the club with your forearms and wrists like you would during a real swing. The clubhead fans left to right about the axis defined by the shaft and your forearms. The golf club is now part of a larger system and its individual static characteristics, while still present, are diminished to the point of irrelevance by the dynamics of the system.
    Why are people intentionally making me feel stupid? All that's missing is a few pp1 and pp4 references about accumulators.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul
    Does this change when the shaft is under load of the swing?
    could, but the shaft would prob be too weak... shaft is relatively straight at impact... so really properties of the club are relatively the same as they were when the club was static...

    it deals more with the reaction of the sweetspot, as the club is swung either properly or improperly....

  56. #56
    Next time I or someone I know gets the shanks, I'll refer them to this masterpiece thread. Reading about sweetspot planes, rotational axis', and static equilibrium should immediately fix the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home-slicer
    Next time I or someone I know gets the shanks, I'll refer them to this masterpiece thread. Reading about sweetspot planes, rotational axis', and static equilibrium should immediately fix the problem.
    LOLOLOL! By the time they get done reading this thread they'll be so screwed up, they'll forget they ever had the shanks.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshuz
    LOLOLOL! By the time they get done reading this thread they'll be so screwed up, they'll forget they ever had the shanks.....
    I'm planning to print this out and show it to the guy that inspired this thread. If this doesn't cure him, NOTHING will!
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    It's possible that shanks are caused by nothing other than being at odds with your true values. Hence the ball going sideways....like your life is going sideways. Find your center...be the ball.

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    The only one true way of curing the shanks is to get a set of Cleveland Vas irons. And you know the're good because Corey Pavin designed them!
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldplayer
    The only one true way of curing the shanks is to get a set of Cleveland Vas irons. And you know the're good because Corey Pavin designed them!
    I'll play anything designed by that gritty little Bruin. I remember trying those out way back when and they went high and straight. I think that's the club that put Cleveland on the map. That one and the 4-wood that the gritty little Bruin hit to win the US Open.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldplayer
    The only one true way of curing the shanks is to get a set of Cleveland Vas irons. And you know the're good because Corey Pavin designed them!
    Its that name that reminds me of "VASectomy". Might be good to get rid of the shanks but afterwards OK to go with the skanks.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    I'll play anything designed by that gritty little Bruin. I remember trying those out way back when and they went high and straight. I think that's the club that put Cleveland on the map. That one and the 4-wood that the gritty little Bruin hit to win the US Open.
    The GLB basically fell off the map shortly after bagging those VAS monstrosities. I liked the VAS woods and driver. Same horrible concept in wood form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    The GLB basically fell off the map shortly after bagging those VAS monstrosities. I liked the VAS woods and driver. Same horrible concept in wood form.
    Do you remember what VAS stood for? I'm going to guess..Variable Accumulator System? Pingman?

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