Why am I still doing this?

[Pky6471]

when I started 15 yrs ago as a beginner, I hit them fat quite often, I think it's a result of dropping my right shoulder during my down swing... Now that my swing is much better and even though I am concious about swinging around my spine I still hit them fat once in a while... What the shìtttt am I doing wrong, again, I think it's due to "dropping" of my shoulder during my down swing... How to fix this guys/girls/AC-DC
Thanks

[famousdavis]

when I started 15 yrs ago as a beginner, I hit them fat quite often, I think it's a result of dropping my right shoulder during my down swing... Now that my swing is much better and even though I am concious about swinging around my spine I still hit them fat once in a while... What the shìtttt am I doing wrong, again, I think it's due to "dropping" of my shoulder during my down swing... How to fix this guys/girls/AC-DC
Thanks

You are probably hitting up on the ball. Try having the sensation that both shoulders are even on the backswing and even coming thru the ball. In other words, make sure your aren't leaning left on the backswing and right on the follow-thru. Also, keep your focus on the upper front of the ball instead of the back of the ball. Focus on hitting down on the ball and hitting the ball first. This is only a few short steps away from actually "being the ball".

[poe4soul]

when I started 15 yrs ago as a beginner, I hit them fat quite often, I think it's a result of dropping my right shoulder during my down swing... Now that my swing is much better and even though I am concious about swinging around my spine I still hit them fat once in a while... What the shìtttt am I doing wrong, again, I think it's due to "dropping" of my shoulder during my down swing... How to fix this guys/girls/AC-DC
Thanks

Cue larry?

Your weight is probably on your back foot at impact. Only a guess but it's usually the main cause of fat shots.

[famousdavis]

Cue larry?

Your weight is probably on your back foot at impact. Only a guess but it's usually the main cause of fat shots.

You might want to try the sleeping pink flamingo drill. I've seen this work with some of the worst reverse weight shifters in the game.

[poe4soul]

You might want to try the sleeping pink flamingo drill. I've seen this work with some of the worst reverse weight shifters in the game.

Is that like the karate kid drill for golf?

I'm sure your referring to one leg drill like shawn clement shows here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Fnf...eature=channel

[famousdavis]

Is that like the karate kid drill for golf?

I'm sure your referring to one leg drill like shawn clement shows here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Fnf...eature=channel

No, it's the pink flamingo drill. Pretend you are a pink flamingo standing on one leg. Leaning one way or another will make you topple over and bang your long neck and small head against a rock next to the pond. Not only that, you'll probably receive a lot of laughter from the crowd at the zoo and who wants that? Visualization, combined with fear of embarassment, is what it's all about.

[mongrel]

when I started 15 yrs ago as a beginner, I hit them fat quite often, I think it's a result of dropping my right shoulder during my down swing... Now that my swing is much better and even though I am concious about swinging around my spine I still hit them fat once in a while... What the shìtttt am I doing wrong, again, I think it's due to "dropping" of my shoulder during my down swing... How to fix this guys/girls/AC-DC
Thanks

Tiger Woods and Paul Casey come to mind as two players of considerable talent and accomplishment who drive their right shoulders down and through hard on iron shots and pound the living poop out of the ball with extreme effectiveness.

[poe4soul]

No, it's the pink flamingo drill. Pretend you are a pink flamingo standing on one leg. Leaning one way or another will make you topple over and bang your long neck and small head against a rock next to the pond. Not only that, you'll probably receive a lot of laughter from the crowd at the zoo and who wants that? Visualization, combined with fear of embarassment, is what it's all about.

Cross reference that to the dream analysis in the other thread and you need to pm Sooner to set up a session. One word of advice though, don't let him talk you into hypnosis to discover repressed memories. From what I can tell they all end up with Spank and his purple dildo. I won't answer any follow up questions on this topic, so don't ask. I do suspect it's a Sooner's fantasy that he implants into your subconscious. Let's just say, its not pretty and Sooner has a very good imagination.

[The Purist]

when I started 15 yrs ago as a beginner, I hit them fat quite often, I think it's a result of dropping my right shoulder during my down swing... Now that my swing is much better and even though I am concious about swinging around my spine I still hit them fat once in a while... What the shìtttt am I doing wrong, again, I think it's due to "dropping" of my shoulder during my down swing... How to fix this guys/girls/AC-DC
Thanks

Your swing is bottoming out before making contact with the ball. Could be anything.

Things to Check:
1. Aiming point (see FD's reply)
2. Ball position (too far forward of center)
3. Balance (momentum of the swing pulling you towards the ball)
4. Failure to accelerate through the shot (if you turn the club upside down and swing the shaft, the swish sound should be close to the bottom of the swing {or just after}...if you hear the swish earlier in the downswing you are releasing too early)
5. Could be weight shift (if fat shots mostly happen on shorter clubs, try starting with more weight on the lead leg and leave it there throughout swing...harder to get weight to the left with a shorter club)

[qtong]

Post a video!

[Pky6471]

Post a video!

Yes, I would love to see my swing as well, but I do not have a video camera

[Pky6471]

Tiger Woods and Paul Casey come to mind as two players of considerable talent and accomplishment who drive their right shoulders down and through hard on iron shots and pound the living poop out of the ball with extreme effectiveness.

IMO Tom Lehman is the guy who drops his right shoulder more so than Tiger and Paul .... somehow Tom is able ti hit a ball very very clean... If I had to drop mine that much , I would hit fat shots EVERY time, that's a promise

[Not a hacker]

I've been at golf tournaments and seen plenty of tour pros hit it fat from time to time. Monty threw away a US Open from a fat approach with a 7 iron on the 72nd hole. Unless you are doing it more than a few times a round, I don't think it's anything to worry about. Nobody at our (I'm referring to the over 80 shooters) level should expect the occassional fat shot.

P.S. Incorporating some Stack n Tilt into your practice sessions will get your weight forward if that is your problem.

[Lord Helmet]

Yes, I would love to see my swing as well, but I do not have a video camera

Nobody is going to mistake me for a teacher or instructor. But IMO you might be leaving your weight too far over your rear foot.

I looked at some of Lehmans swings and he definitely has is right shoulder low at impact, but his weight is clearly shifted to his front foot which I think bottoms out his arc in front of the ball.

Again, Im no instructor but was thinking of some possible causes to your issues. NaH also, IMO, has some good advice. Leave your weight over the front foot in some trial sessions. See what that does. You might be getting too far behind the ball on the backswing, treating irons like driver with a long sweeping style.

NaH also had another good tidbit - if it happens once here and there - no biggie. Were amateurs. Craps gonna happen. Just dont make 2 bad shots in a row! G luck!

Again - im no instructor so take everything I say with that caution! lol

[Lord Helmet]

I've been at golf tournaments and seen plenty of tour pros hit it fat from time to time. Monty threw away a US Open from a fat approach with a 7 iron on the 72nd hole. Unless you are doing it more than a few times a round, I don't think it's anything to worry about. Nobody at our (I'm referring to the over 80 shooters) level should expect the occassional fat shot.

P.S. Incorporating some Stack n Tilt into your practice sessions will get your weight forward if that is your problem.

I was watching the Senior Tour event over the weekend on Golf Channel. It was for the SC Cup I guess.

Saw Langer lay some serious sod on a t shot on a par 3 with one of those adams paddles (lol-j/k). Fat happens. It was so bad the announcers just said "wow" and didnt replay it.

[Not a hacker]

I was watching the Senior Tour event over the weekend on Golf Channel. It was for the SC Cup I guess.

Saw Langer lay some serious sod on a t shot on a par 3 with one of those adams paddles (lol-j/k). Fat happens. It was so bad the announcers just said "wow" and didnt replay it.

Wish I saw that. I love watching pros fuk up. I was at a tournament here in Oz about 10 years ago and saw Michael Campbell hit a 3 wood from the fairway straight up in the air. It went about 50 metres. My all time favourite is a Greg Norman cold topped 3 wood which went about 2 feet off the ground which they show from time to time here.

[Pky6471]

Thanks guys/girls/AC-DC... perhaps there is a little hope for me...

[mongrel]

Wish I saw that. I love watching pros fuk up. .

Wasn't that the hole where his chunked tee shot landed in thick rough? His next wedge out of that cabbage ended up 16" from the hole and he made par.

[Lord Helmet]

Wasn't that the hole where his chunked tee shot landed in thick rough? His next wedge out of that cabbage ended up 16" from the hole and he made par.

He must have done it 2x then! The hole I saw, he chunked his T shot and sod went flying everywhere - ball went into the thick rough. He wedged onto the green, but it bounced over onto the back fringe I think. 2 putt for a bogey.

Not sure the hole # but thinking it was back9 and around 200 yards. His T shot only went 150 or so.

This was Friday I believe.

That course looked pretty cool.

[famousdavis]

Yes, I would love to see my swing as well, but I do not have a video camera

You can buy an Flip Video at Costco in HD for $149.

[Pky6471]

You can buy an Flip Video at Costco in HD for $149.

Thanks FD... I consider myself a high-tech guy because my company helps chips technology, but I don't buy those high-tech gitsmo (sp?)... however I don't mind spending $2K+ for a 55" 3D C7100 Samsung TV... great to watch golf , especially when they hit FAT shots

[famousdavis]

Thanks FD... I consider myself a high-tech guy because my company helps chips technology, but I don't buy those high-tech gitsmo (sp?)... however I don't mind spending $2K+ for a 55" 3D C7100 Samsung TV... great to watch golf , especially when they hit FAT shots

Worst fat shot was Seve's 7 iron into the water at the 1986 Masters. Actually, I'm not sure if it was a 7 iron but it was just horrible. Mucho Mal.

[Not a hacker]

Worst fat shot was Seve's 7 iron into the water at the 1986 Masters. Actually, I'm not sure if it was a 7 iron but it was just horrible. Mucho Mal.

The Shark chunked one into the water on 12 during his 1996 meltdown. From memory it wasn't as bad as Seve's, just fat enough to land on the front and roll back in. That Masters was like watching a car crash that lasts 5 hours.

[famousdavis]

The Shark chunked one into the water on 12 during his 1996 meltdown. From memory it wasn't as bad as Seve's, just fat enough to land on the front and roll back in. That Masters was like watching a car crash that lasts 5 hours.

By far the worst choke I've ever seen. It was beyond painful because I wanted so badly for Greg Norman to win. John Van Develd or whatever his name is had a bad choke but anyone can blow up a hole. Norman just kept doing it over and over. Then, on the 16th hole he practically hooked one into the middle of the lake. I mean, he's a pro for goodness sake.

Another horrible Norman shot was the 4 iron he hit for his second shot to the 18th green of the 1986 Masters.

[Not a hacker]

By far the worst choke I've ever seen. It was beyond painful because I wanted so badly for Greg Norman to win. John Van Develd or whatever his name is had a bad choke but anyone can blow up a hole. Norman just kept doing it over and over. Then, on the 16th hole he practically hooked one into the middle of the lake. I mean, he's a pro for goodness sake.

Another horrible Norman shot was the 4 iron he hit for his second shot to the 18th green of the 1986 Masters.

I honestly thought 1996 was going to be the payback for all the times I got up at ungodly hours of the morning only to see Norman choke away majors. I mean a 6 shot lead, c'mon, it's a victory procession not a round of golf, right? Wrong. I forgot about 16, that was a shot a 20 marker would be disgusted with. The 4 iron on 18 in 86 was pretty bad too, but that was just poor club selection. He has said that if he could take one shot over it would be that one. He said that he is naturally agressive and should have jumped on a 5 iron instead of trying to baby a 4 iron. I think it's irrelevant cause even if he had hit a 5 iron there's no way he would sink the putt for the win in those circumstances, and would have choked in a playoff.

One thing I will say in defence of the shark though, is that he had nothing given to him in the majors. Chip-ins from bunkers, holed chips from impossible places to even get it close, a 46 year old fat cripple shooting 30 on the back nine of Augusta? I remember Singh once shooting 41 on the last nine of a PGA and still winning. Norman never had that sort of luck, he always had someone playing the round of their life to beat him. Tiger has never had anyone coming at him on major Sundays either. Apart from Bob May, nobody has made Tiger sweat when he's in the lead on Sunday, they just lie down and let Tiger walk all over them. I rememebr a commentator saying about Norman "once you're snake bit you stay snake bit". It was the truest thing ever said about the Shark.

[famousdavis]

I honestly thought 1996 was going to be the payback for all the times I got up at ungodly hours of the morning only to see Norman choke away majors. I mean a 6 shot lead, c'mon, it's a victory procession not a round of golf, right? Wrong. I forgot about 16, that was a shot a 20 marker would be disgusted with. The 4 iron on 18 in 86 was pretty bad too, but that was just poor club selection. He has said that if he could take one shot over it would be that one. He said that he is naturally agressive and should have jumped on a 5 iron instead of trying to baby a 4 iron. I think it's irrelevant cause even if he had hit a 5 iron there's no way he would sink the putt for the win in those circumstances, and would have choked in a playoff.

One thing I will say in defence of the shark though, is that he had nothing given to him in the majors. Chip-ins from bunkers, holed chips from impossible places to even get it close, a 46 year old fat cripple shooting 30 on the back nine of Augusta? I remember Singh once shooting 41 on the last nine of a PGA and still winning. Norman never had that sort of luck, he always had someone playing the round of their life to beat him. Tiger has never had anyone coming at him on major Sundays either. Apart from Bob May, nobody has made Tiger sweat when he's in the lead on Sunday, they just lie down and let Tiger walk all over them. I rememebr a commentator saying about Norman "once you're snake bit you stay snake bit". It was the truest thing ever said about the Shark.

True, and to add insult to injury his snake bites were done by the likes of Larry Mize, Bob Tway, Robert Gamez, etc.

[Not a hacker]

True, and to add insult to injury his snake bites were done by the likes of Larry Mize, Bob Tway, Robert Gamez, etc.

Yep, has beens and never weres having the best tournament of their life. It was like after the first couple of chokes the guys behind would take heart and chase harder knowing that Norman might back up. When Tiger get's his nose in front on Saturday afetrnoon, the rest of the field are almost resigned to playing for second. Maybe Norman was unpopular in the locker room too, and the rest of the guys hated him so much they would put in that little extra to beat him?

[24putts]

Fat shots have always been my characteristic miss, left-right never being a problem. I notice that whenever I go fat, I've failed to make a slow enough takeaway. I don't think I ever hit fat when I'm consciously slow the first 3 feet. The proximate cause of the fat shot, as someone above said, is relocating the arc to the right, i.e. sway. Exaggerating the slow takeaway is almost guaranteed to eliminate sway. You might blade it, but it won't be fat. And I didn't realize, until this past Sunday, how little personality Fred Couples has. Speaks poorly for women, really.

[Kiwi Player]

I honestly thought 1996 was going to be the payback for all the times I got up at ungodly hours of the morning only to see Norman choke away majors. I mean a 6 shot lead, c'mon, it's a victory procession not a round of golf, right? Wrong. I forgot about 16, that was a shot a 20 marker would be disgusted with. The 4 iron on 18 in 86 was pretty bad too, but that was just poor club selection. He has said that if he could take one shot over it would be that one. He said that he is naturally agressive and should have jumped on a 5 iron instead of trying to baby a 4 iron. I think it's irrelevant cause even if he had hit a 5 iron there's no way he would sink the putt for the win in those circumstances, and would have choked in a playoff.

One thing I will say in defence of the shark though, is that he had nothing given to him in the majors. Chip-ins from bunkers, holed chips from impossible places to even get it close, a 46 year old fat cripple shooting 30 on the back nine of Augusta? I remember Singh once shooting 41 on the last nine of a PGA and still winning. Norman never had that sort of luck, he always had someone playing the round of their life to beat him. Tiger has never had anyone coming at him on major Sundays either. Apart from Bob May, nobody has made Tiger sweat when he's in the lead on Sunday, they just lie down and let Tiger walk all over them. I rememebr a commentator saying about Norman "once you're snake bit you stay snake bit". It was the truest thing ever said about the Shark.

Once again you are showing your selective memory and forgetting the indomitable Y.E. Yang who ran Tiger down from behind on Sunday in the 2009 PGA and b.itchslapped with the legendary R7 TP irons and his hybrids.

It's been all down hill for Tiger since that monumental manshaming.

[famousdavis]

Fat shots have always been my characteristic miss, left-right never being a problem. I notice that whenever I go fat, I've failed to make a slow enough takeaway. I don't think I ever hit fat when I'm consciously slow the first 3 feet. The proximate cause of the fat shot, as someone above said, is relocating the arc to the right, i.e. sway. Exaggerating the slow takeaway is almost guaranteed to eliminate sway. You might blade it, but it won't be fat. And I didn't realize, until this past Sunday, how little personality Fred Couples has. Speaks poorly for women, really.

Playing golf is similar to bar hopping. I'd rather hit it thin than hit it fat. The fat ones come searching for you. The thin ones just go on there merry way.

[mongrel]

He must have done it 2x then! The hole I saw, he chunked his T shot and sod went flying everywhere - ball went into the thick rough. He wedged onto the green, but it bounced over onto the back fringe I think. 2 putt for a bogey.

Not sure the hole # but thinking it was back9 and around 200 yards. His T shot only went 150 or so.

This was Friday I believe.

That course looked pretty cool.

I think it was Sunday between US football games. If he had done it four times, it would have sort of been the inverse of Rocco holing out once per round in the northern California tournament two weeks ago.

[qtong]

I have a tendency to hit fat shots as well. Here is why:
1. My hips tend to get stuck and not rotate through causing a flip in the wrists.
2. I pull my left shoulder up in order to "help the ball up" rather than hitting down
3. I slide forward on the down swing

cue larry: youre hitting it fat because you don't post.

[Not a hacker]

Once again you are showing your selective memory and forgetting the indomitable Y.E. Yang who ran Tiger down from behind on Sunday in the 2009 PGA and b.itchslapped with the legendary R7 TP irons and his hybrids.

It's been all down hill for Tiger since that monumental manshaming.

Yeah fair call. I was referring to the old Tiger, stomping all over the field winning 2 majors a year, days, but a thrashing is a thrashing.

[Horseballs]

Thanks guys/girls/AC-DC... perhaps there is a little hope for me...

Nope you should quit immediately.
And AC/DC is just awful. Kind of like KISS. In fact, all of the 70's hard rock bands are a bunch of crap. And Angus McD-bag (or whatever his name is) is horribly overrated. He resorts to gimmicks like wearing a tie with shorts and hopping around like an @sshole because his guitar chops are subpar. Does he know more than two chords? Wait, don't answer that because the answer is no. Australia has become globally embarrassing. They hang their collective hats on AC/DC, Crocodile Dundee, Steve Irwin, and Fosters. All those things are either old, terrible or dead.
But I digress. Seriously, you should quit the game.

[Not a hacker]

Nope you should quit immediately.
And AC/DC is just awful. Kind of like KISS. In fact, all of the 70's hard rock bands are a bunch of crap. And Angus McD-bag (or whatever his name is) is horribly overrated. He resorts to gimmicks like wearing a tie with shorts and hopping around like an @sshole because his guitar chops are subpar. Does he know more than two chords? Wait, don't answer that because the answer is no. Australia has become globally embarrassing. They hang their collective hats on AC/DC, Crocodile Dundee, Steve Irwin, and Fosters. All those things are either old, terrible or dead.
But I digress. Seriously, you should quit the game.

I know this was a flame to draw me out, but you really needn't have tried so hard HB, I would have bitten just with the AC/DC flame. If you were a true student of hard rock you would have acknowledged the lesser known Young, Malcolm, as the driving force of the band in the Bon Scott years with his grinding riffs. Like most rhythm guitarists, just because he doesn't dance around the stage with the guitar held up at shoulder height pointing to the sky while he plays something ridiculously fast, he doesn't get his dues. Angus got all the attention, but Malcolm came up with the riffs which made their songs great. Another great guitarist who doesn't get due credit because most of the time he played rhtyhm, Keith Richards, once said about heavy metal guitarists like Eddie Van Halen, "They're not sure which notes to play so they just play all of them"

[Horseballs]

I know this was a flame to draw me out, but you really needn't have tried so hard HB, I would have bitten just with the AC/DC flame. If you were a true student of hard rock you would have acknowledged the lesser known Young, Malcolm, as the driving force of the band in the Bon Scott years with his grinding riffs. Like most rhythm guitarists, just because he doesn't dance around the stage with the guitar held up at shoulder height pointing to the sky while he plays something ridiculously fast, he doesn't get his dues. Angus got all the attention, but Malcolm came up with the riffs which made their songs great. Another great guitarist who doesn't get due credit because most of the time he played rhtyhm, Keith Richards, once said about heavy metal guitarists like Eddie Van Halen, "They're not sure which notes to play so they just play all of them"

Well I definitely don't claim to be a student of hard rock. I studied things like pusssy and business while I was in school. I minored in booze and recreational drugs. I try to stay current in my studies by taking remedial courses, but admittedly I've been focusing more on booze while neglecting my other course work.

[jt1135]

Just wondering if all those guys are crappy musicians why are the all millionaires and in the rock hall of fame?

[Horseballs]

Just wondering if all those guys are crappy musicians why are the all millionaires and in the rock hall of fame?

I wish I knew. The simple answer is that most people are morons. Look at Larry and his clap-trap inventions. He's got a pool house and putting green, lives in Rancho Santa Fe, and has a fanbase that spans North America (mostly Western Canada) and beyond. Popularity and money are not always accurate indicators of skill and talent. Idiotic people eat up mediocrity with a large wooden spoon. It makes them feel less inadequate that similarly talented people can find success by putting forth gimmicky garbage. Look at Scratch Golf. They've carved a niche by preying on simpletons who believe a $600 wedge is the missing piece to their golfing Nirvana. Or Scotty Cameron for that matter. There are more examples the drops of water in the ocean. I think we're on the same page here...

[famousdavis]

Nope you should quit immediately.
And AC/DC is just awful. Kind of like KISS. In fact, all of the 70's hard rock bands are a bunch of crap. And Angus McD-bag (or whatever his name is) is horribly overrated. He resorts to gimmicks like wearing a tie with shorts and hopping around like an @sshole because his guitar chops are subpar. Does he know more than two chords? Wait, don't answer that because the answer is no. Australia has become globally embarrassing. They hang their collective hats on AC/DC, Crocodile Dundee, Steve Irwin, and Fosters. All those things are either old, terrible or dead.
But I digress. Seriously, you should quit the game.

As a former member of the KISS Army who owned every Kiss Album (including all 4 solo albums), at least up until they released "Creatures of the Night" as well as owning the KISS make-up kit, I feel sorry for you that you can't appreciate their greatness in the 70's. Oh, I also own the first two KISS comic books.

I kind of agree with AC/DC. Overrated band that was cool to like because of all the blood and implied devil worshop. Highway to Hell was good and so was Back in Black but that's about it. Most of their songs sound the same. The new singer is better than Bon Scott.

Guns and Roses, KISS and Aerosmith are the best hard rock bands.

Poison is the best hair band of all time.

[Not a hacker]

As a former member of the KISS Army who owned every Kiss Album (including all 4 solo albums), at least up until they released "Creatures of the Night" as well as owning the KISS make-up kit, I feel sorry for you that you can't appreciate their greatness in the 70's. Oh, I also own the first two KISS comic books.

I kind of agree with AC/DC. Overrated band that was cool to like because of all the blood and implied devil worshop. Highway to Hell was good and so was Back in Black but that's about it. Most of their songs sound the same. The new singer is better than Bon Scott.

Guns and Roses, KISS and Aerosmith are the best hard rock bands.

Poison is the best hair band of all time.

So it's not just geography and history where Americans are ignoramuses. I agree that Aerosmith are pretty good, but basically every great band of the 60s and 70s came out of England. The late 70s belonged to AC/DC, but before that it was bands like Zeplin, Free, The Stones, The Small Faces etc etc were where it was at. You really need to get out more FD.

[famousdavis]

So it's not just geography and history where Americans are ignoramuses. I agree that Aerosmith are pretty good, but basically every great band of the 60s and 70s came out of England. The late 70s belonged to AC/DC, but before that it was bands like Zeplin, Free, The Stones, The Small Faces etc etc were where it was at. You really need to get out more FD.

Guns and Roses is better than all of those.

[Not a hacker]

Guns and Roses is better than all of those.

This comment tells us all we need to know about your taste in music. The only American band which I would rate is Nirvana.

[poe4soul]

So it's not just geography and history where Americans are ignoramuses. I agree that Aerosmith are pretty good, but basically every great band of the 60s and 70s came out of England. The late 70s belonged to AC/DC, but before that it was bands like Zeplin, Free, The Stones, The Small Faces etc etc were where it was at. You really need to get out more FD.

I not going to debate this but your overlooking some great American bands like hendrix, van halen (maybe not great but Eddie was a big influence to rock), remones, pearl jam, etc. Then one would have to include some others that I can't stand like the eagles ( don't throw stones on this one or I'll point out your country was responsible for the bee gees. Oops I just did).

But if you are talking rock you can't leave Elvis out of the conversation or many of the blues, country and gospel artists for which rock has its roots and is American. But I do have to agree that there were many bands from England that rocked. Pink Floyd, queen, beattles, rolling stones, on and on and on.

[SoonerBS]

I know this was a flame to draw me out, but you really needn't have tried so hard HB, I would have bitten just with the AC/DC flame. If you were a true student of hard rock you would have acknowledged the lesser known Young, Malcolm, as the driving force of the band in the Bon Scott years with his grinding riffs. Like most rhythm guitarists, just because he doesn't dance around the stage with the guitar held up at shoulder height pointing to the sky while he plays something ridiculously fast, he doesn't get his dues. Angus got all the attention, but Malcolm came up with the riffs which made their songs great. Another great guitarist who doesn't get due credit because most of the time he played rhtyhm, Keith Richards, once said about heavy metal guitarists like Eddie Van Halen, "They're not sure which notes to play so they just play all of them"

NaH, tell me you didn't try to pass off a serious Keith Richards quote? You realize the dude has NEVER had one live brain cell since probably the 10th grade?

[Not a hacker]

I not going to debate this but your overlooking some great American bands like hendrix, van halen (maybe not great but Eddie was a big influence to rock), remones, pearl jam, etc. Then one would have to include some others that I can't stand like the eagles ( don't throw stones on this one or I'll point out your country was responsible for the bee gees. Oops I just did).

But if you are talking rock you can't leave Elvis out of the conversation or many of the blues, country and gospel artists for which rock has its roots and is American. But I do have to agree that there were many bands from England that rocked. Pink Floyd, queen, beattles, rolling stones, on and on and on.

I was strictly talking bands, and Hendrix and Elvis are more solo artists who had bands working with them. I'm a massive fan of The King and agree with everything you said about him. Hendrix is also right up there as one of the greatest rock and roll performers ever, and I actually forgot he was American. I actually also left out another American band who I would put up on the top shelf, The Black Crows. I suppose my point I was trying to make was that FD has taste in his arse, and the bands he mentioned like Guns and Roses are mediocre at best. Totally agree about The Eagles, up there with U2 as the most overrated band in history IMO.

Sooner, I believe the quote was from a long time ago, but in any case you don't need brain cells to know that guitarists like Eddie Van Halen and Yngwie Malmsteen (WTF sort of name is that anyway) suck arse.

[Kiwi Player]

I was strictly talking bands, and Hendrix and Elvis are more solo artists who had bands working with them. I'm a massive fan of The King and agree with everything you said about him. Hendrix is also right up there as one of the greatest rock and roll performers ever, and I actually forgot he was American. I actually also left out another American band who I would put up on the top shelf, The Black Crows. I suppose my point I was trying to make was that FD has taste in his arse, and the bands he mentioned like Guns and Roses are mediocre at best. Totally agree about The Eagles, up there with U2 as the most overrated band in history IMO.

Sooner, I believe the quote was from a long time ago, but in any case you don't need brain cells to know that guitarists like Eddie Van Halen and Yngwie Malmsteen (WTF sort of name is that anyway) suck arse.

The Doors is another great American band to add to the list. One of my all time favourites. I'm not going to disagree with what others have said but I'm going to side with FD re Guns N Roses. Great rock band in their heyday and Appetite for Destruction one of the classic rock albums.

[lorenzoinoc]

Let's face it. Most popular rock bands have as much true talent as the hot weather babe I'm watching right now on LA local TV. Very few intelligent people produce rock "music". Despite that, intelligent people like us tend to regard some of them as gifted even though it's likely we could leave them in the dust had we started drugs early and devoted our time playing in a band rather than college.

I try to enjoy what's out there while accepting that most are morons, particularly AC/DC, Kiss and Ozzy Osbourne.

[Kiwi Player]

This is some brilliant threadjacking going on. On this thread we are talking rock bands and on Qtong's thread we are talking diet and obesity.

Classic GR Threadjacking!!!! LOL

[Kiwi Player]

Let's face it. Most popular rock bands have as much true talent as the hot weather babe I'm watching right now on LA local TV. Very few intelligent people produce rock "music". Despite that, intelligent people like us tend to regard some of them as gifted even though it's likely we could leave them in the dust had we started drugs early and devoted our time playing in a band rather than college.

I try to enjoy what's out there while accepting that most are morons, particularly AC/DC, Kiss and Ozzy Osbourne.

That they are effed up there can be no doubt. Show me a great musician who is not effed up?

We call it flawed genius don't we?

[lorenzoinoc]

That they are effed up there can be no doubt. Show me a great musician who is not effed up?

We call it flawed genius don't we?

Part of what makes popular music fun is that you have genius (i.e. The Police, Ray Charles with 150+ iq-s) side by side with dimwits (examples abound).

[poe4soul]

This is some brilliant threadjacking going on. On this thread we are talking rock bands and on Qtong's thread we are talking diet and obesity.

Classic GR Threadjacking!!!! LOL

Desite lary's exit stage left while looking for the confounded bridge, we threadjacked his swing d'flavor thread multiple times to push it over 100.

[poe4soul]

Let's face it. Most popular rock bands have as much true talent as the hot weather babe I'm watching right now on LA local TV. Very few intelligent people produce rock "music". Despite that, intelligent people like us tend to regard some of them as gifted even though it's likely we could leave them in the dust had we started drugs early and devoted our time playing in a band rather than college.

I try to enjoy what's out there while accepting that most are morons, particularly AC/DC, Kiss and Ozzy Osbourne.

Along the same lines have you seen that modern day blind savant that can't button his own shirt that can play any song on the piano just hearing it once. He can replay it in any style, in any key, and any time. It's amazing how the mind works. You can be a complete retard in one thing and completely gifted in another. Then there's the rest of the masses that are just dull and mediocre in comparison to these savants. Even 'people like us' seem pale in comparison to some of these savants. It's all relative. I've tried my hand at music. I can play the notes but I'm not gifted enough to be an ottmar liebert, yo yo ma, hendrix, or the likes.
One thing is for sure MTV killed talent in rock-n-roll or pop music for that matter.

[Kiwi Player]

Along the same lines have you seen that modern day blind savant that can't button his own shirt that can play any song on the piano just hearing it once. He can replay it in any style, in any key, and any time. It's amazing how the mind works. You can be a complete retard in one thing and completely gifted in another. Then there's the rest of the masses that are just dull and mediocre in comparison to these savants. Even 'people like us' seem pale in comparison to some of these savants. It's all relative. I've tried my hand at music. I can play the notes but I'm not gifted enough to be an ottmar liebert, yo yo ma, hendrix, or the likes.
One thing is for sure MTV killed talent in rock-n-roll or pop music for that matter.

I'm not sure about that. If you look hard enough the talent is still there. Behind the talentless, over hyped facade that is MTV there are still brilliant rock bands producing classic underground music away from the glare of MTV and hype of big recording deals.

Not sure who they are right now but in 10 years time I'll be able to tell you who the great rock acts of 2010 were. LOL

[Not a hacker]

I also forgot one of my other favourite American bands, the incomparable Devo. If GR was a night club I think Devo would make a great house band.

[lorenzoinoc]

Along the same lines have you seen that modern day blind savant that can't button his own shirt that can play any song on the piano just hearing it once. He can replay it in any style, in any key, and any time. It's amazing how the mind works. You can be a complete retard in one thing and completely gifted in another. Then there's the rest of the masses that are just dull and mediocre in comparison to these savants. Even 'people like us' seem pale in comparison to some of these savants. It's all relative. I've tried my hand at music. I can play the notes but I'm not gifted enough to be an ottmar liebert, yo yo ma, hendrix, or the likes.
One thing is for sure MTV killed talent in rock-n-roll or pop music for that matter.

There are some, particularly in Jazz or New Age. A guy like Ottmar Liebert can both create and play at a high level. But for every one of them that toils to small audiences, there are throngs who are typists on strings and keyboards that can't create anything original or worthwhile. Particularly today.

Can anyone name a good current popular band or artist? Other than Justin Bieber.

[jt1135]

There have been many influential british bands true, but the US has had a few that helped shape music. Lou Reed, Beach Boys, Jefferson Airplane, (and as much as I don't like to say it) Prince, JJ Cale, BB King come to mind. Led Zep is great sure but have to say that back in the 70's when everybody used to go cruisin, whenever you got a chick in the car they always wanted to hear Stairway to Heaven. Got to the point where we were driving along one night partying and heard that song again, I opened the window and threw that overplayed 8 track out the window and to this day I still hate that phuckin song.

[lorenzoinoc]

There have been many influential british bands true, but the US has had a few that helped shape music. Lou Reed, Beach Boys, Jefferson Airplane, (and as much as I don't like to say it) Prince, JJ Cale, BB King come to mind. Led Zep is great sure but have to say that back in the 70's when everybody used to go cruisin, whenever you got a chick in the car they always wanted to hear Stairway to Heaven. Got to the point where we were driving along one night partying and heard that song again, I opened the window and threw that overplayed 8 track out the window and to this day I still hate that phuckin song.

You threw out Stairway To Heaven?

[Not a hacker]

There have been many influential british bands true, but the US has had a few that helped shape music. Lou Reed, Beach Boys, Jefferson Airplane, (and as much as I don't like to say it) Prince, JJ Cale, BB King come to mind. Led Zep is great sure but have to say that back in the 70's when everybody used to go cruisin, whenever you got a chick in the car they always wanted to hear Stairway to Heaven. Got to the point where we were driving along one night partying and heard that song again, I opened the window and threw that overplayed 8 track out the window and to this day I still hate that phuckin song.

If you are talking purely influential, the Americans are up there. Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly are probably the two biggest early influences of popular music, and The Stooges were the trail blazers for the punk movement. Over the Hills and Far Away is a way better Zep song than Stairway.

[The Purist]

There are some, particularly in Jazz or New Age. A guy like Ottmar Liebert can both create and play at a high level. But for every one of them that toils to small audiences, there are throngs who are typists on strings and keyboards that can't create anything original or worthwhile. Particularly today.

Can anyone name a good current popular band or artist? Other than Justin Bieber.

I continue to be impressed with Taylor Swift. Anyone who is willing to sing her own songs completely off key in front of millions every year at the CMA's has my vote.

...decent lesser know new group is TheSteelDrivers. They are kind of bluegrassish, but good...check out the song "Where Rainbows Never Die"

[famousdavis]

I not going to debate this but your overlooking some great American bands like hendrix, van halen (maybe not great but Eddie was a big influence to rock), remones, pearl jam, etc. Then one would have to include some others that I can't stand like the eagles ( don't throw stones on this one or I'll point out your country was responsible for the bee gees. Oops I just did).

But if you are talking rock you can't leave Elvis out of the conversation or many of the blues, country and gospel artists for which rock has its roots and is American. But I do have to agree that there were many bands from England that rocked. Pink Floyd, queen, beattles, rolling stones, on and on and on.

Elvis created rock and roll and was the biggest influence in the history of music.
The Beatles were the next biggest influence.

The Rolling Stones were pretty good in the early days but they should have shut it down after 1980. Everything after that sucked and the Super Bowl was a joke.

Pink Floyd is extremely overrated. Some of the songs on The Wall were good.

Van Halen's first three albums were good. Haggar was a horrible mistake.

AC/DC pretty much churns out the same sounding songs over and over. Back in Black is clearly the best album.

Queen is a great band and Freddy had one of the best voices ever. Best concert ever at Live Aid.

Kiss was a great band. I saw them live in 1996 and it was incredible. Pink Floyd sucks in concert.

[famousdavis]

...also, two of the best rock and roll songs ever are from Cheap Trick.

I want you to want me

Surrender

That's right...I said it.

[jt1135]

Yep. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It's like eating the same thing over and over again till you despise and hate it. Rather have rusty razorblades shoved up my arse than have to listen to that overplayed piece of shite song again.

[jt1135]

Saw cheap trick back in Texas in the early 80's. Great concert. Nielsen was fantastic on the guitar and Bun E. Carlos was way too cool on the drums. The beatles, stones and led zep just progressed from the sound of the early blues artists in america. Long live Sun records for the contribution to rock and roll.

[Kiwi Player]

I also forgot one of my other favourite American bands, the incomparable Devo. If GR was a night club I think Devo would make a great house band.

+1

Jocko H0m0 and Mongoloid favorite tracks.

[lorenzoinoc]

Some worthy mentions but I'm still not seeing anyone current other than Taylor Swift. She has presence for sure but she's kind of doing Jewel only with a much weaker voice.

Jewel has true talent, Dylan had it, Beatles, Elvis although I thought Chuck Berry created rock and roll, at least according to Back to the Future. I've also heard Bill Haley and The Comets created Rock but that Chuck Berry was the first one to make it cool. The Beatles discovered that five note transition and carried its sound through just about everything else that's been done but at a pretty high level. Ray Charles was maybe the most talented of them all. Close your eyes for a day and see how you get through life.

I like guitar instrumentalists. Joe Satriani probably my favorite with old stuff like Jeff Beck also on my list. Which is why I hold Led Zep in high regard. Ottmar Liebert is a true talent. I'm guessing he's found combinations of drugs others may not have experimented with.

I understand disdain when a song gets old just don't throw Kashmir out the window. If you get to see the music DVD in a great system of LZ doing that song and others with an orchestra in a studio it's great stuff. Agree on the blues evolution thing and Sun Records.

Time to change my sig.

[daveperkins]

I continue to be impressed with Taylor Swift. Anyone who is willing to sing her own songs completely off key in front of millions every year at the CMA's has my vote.

...decent lesser know new group is TheSteelDrivers. They are kind of bluegrassish, but good...check out the song "Where Rainbows Never Die"

There was a problem with the monitoring for the singers last night. I clicked in and out, but almost everyone sang off key. Kenny Chesney's "Boys of Fall" was the worst performance I've heard in years, by ANYONE. Taylor Swift wasn't AS off key as she's recently been in other venues.

Even Carrie Underwood sang a bit off key, which NEVER happens.

[poe4soul]

+1

Jocko H0m0 and Mongoloid favorite tracks.

they have many good songs. Beautiful world, Girl U want, etc. Through Being Cool was always one of my off hit favorites. Have you seen any of the live versions of Peek a boo? The stage had these bright lights that went on the audience with the "peek a boo.". anyway the girls started flashing DEVO when the lights would go on. "Haa haa haa Peek a boo" lights on and hundreds of girls naked breast in brilliant light. Every band needs a song like this that promotes this activity.

[famousdavis]

they have many good songs. Beautiful world, Girl U want, etc. Through Being Cool was always one of my off hit favorites. Have you seen any of the live versions of Peek a boo? The stage had these bright lights that went on the audience with the "peek a boo.". anyway the girls started flashing DEVO when the lights would go on. "Haa haa haa Peek a boo" lights on and hundreds of girls naked breast in brilliant light. Every band needs a song like this that promotes this activity.

Are you serious? Devo? They had one good song. There's not one Led Zeppelin song that I like. I can't stand Robert Plant's voice. Below are the best hard rock bands of all time:

1. Guns and Roses'
2. Aerosmith
3. Van Halen
4. Metallica
5. Poison

[famousdavis]

Below are the best pop rock bands:

1. Cheap Trick
2. REO Speedwagon
3. Supertramp
4. Journey
5. Boston

These ratings are irrefutable.

[Kiwi Player]

Are you serious? Devo? They had one good song. There's not one Led Zeppelin song that I like. I can't stand Robert Plant's voice. Below are the best hard rock bands of all time:

1. Guns and Roses'
2. Aerosmith
3. Van Halen
4. Metallica
5. Poison

Which song?

[famousdavis]

Which song?

I'll give you a hint....CCCCRRRaaack that whip!!! Give the pass a slip.

[Kiwi Player]

they have many good songs. Beautiful world, Girl U want, etc. Through Being Cool was always one of my off hit favorites. Have you seen any of the live versions of Peek a boo? The stage had these bright lights that went on the audience with the "peek a boo.". anyway the girls started flashing DEVO when the lights would go on. "Haa haa haa Peek a boo" lights on and hundreds of girls naked breast in brilliant light. Every band needs a song like this that promotes this activity.

Haven't seen that one. Not one of my favorites so haven't looked it up on Youtube but might have to checked it out.

One of my favorite British Punk/New Wave bands was the Stranglers and they had a song named Nice N Sleazy. They performed it live outdoors with a bunch of strippers/hookers on the stage. Very Nice N Sleazy!

[poe4soul]

Elvis created rock and roll and was the biggest influence in the history of music.
The Beatles were the next biggest influence.

The Rolling Stones were pretty good in the early days but they should have shut it down after 1980. Everything after that sucked and the Super Bowl was a joke.

Pink Floyd is extremely overrated. Some of the songs on The Wall were good.

Van Halen's first three albums were good. Haggar was a horrible mistake.

AC/DC pretty much churns out the same sounding songs over and over. Back in Black is clearly the best album.

Queen is a great band and Freddy had one of the best voices ever. Best concert ever at Live Aid.

Kiss was a great band. I saw them live in 1996 and it was incredible. Pink Floyd sucks in concert.

Let's see Kiss over Pink Floyd and Eye2's over all other clubs. At least your consistent; consistently wrong.

[Kiwi Player]

I'll give you a hint....CCCCRRRaaack that whip!!! Give the pass a slip.

Seems to me like the only songs you know from some of these bands are the ones that featured in the pop charts. Whip it was good but just one of many great Devo songs.

Uncontrollable Urge
Satisfaction
Jocko Hom0
Mongoloid
Beautiful World
Jerkin Back N Forth
Ton of Love
Going Under

The list goes on and on.

[Kiwi Player]

Let's see Kiss over Pink Floyd and Eye2's over all other clubs. At least your consistent; consistently wrong.

Wouldn't say wrong as it's all a question of personal opinion but agree he has consistently bad taste.

[poe4soul]

Haven't seen that one. Not one of my favorites so haven't looked it up on Youtube but might have to checked it out.

One of my favorite British Punk/New Wave bands was the Stranglers and they had a song named Nice N Sleazy. They performed it live outdoors with a bunch of strippers/hookers on the stage. Very Nice N Sleazy!

I'm also a big fan of Tom Waits older stuff. Nothing like an artist that titles his album "Pasties and a G String."

I'm not a big fan of Peek a boo either but it would make the song bearable in a concert. I doubt you'll see it on Youtube. De-Evolution!

[poe4soul]

Wouldn't say wrong as it's all a question of personal opinion but agree he has consistently bad taste.

fair enough... bad choice of words.

[Kiwi Player]

Are you serious? Devo? They had one good song. There's not one Led Zeppelin song that I like. I can't stand Robert Plant's voice. Below are the best hard rock bands of all time:

1. Guns and Roses'
2. Aerosmith
3. Van Halen
4. Metallica
5. Poison

On that list only G N R and Metallica make the cut. Poison are a girls band and Aerosmith & Van Halen both suck shite big time.

As for Led Zep, have you ever listened to When the Levy Breaks? Great song.

[poe4soul]

Seems to me like the only songs you know from some of these bands are the ones that featured in the pop charts. Whip it was good but just one of many great Devo songs.

Uncontrollable Urge
Satisfaction
Jocko Hom0
Mongoloid
Beautiful World
Jerkin Back N Forth
Ton of Love
Going Under

The list goes on and on.

Whip It was a popular hit but not anywhere near as good as the other's listed...

[Kiwi Player]

Whip It was a popular hit but not anywhere near as good as the other's listed...

Famousdavis needs to buy some real studio albums instead of basing his opinions on pop charts and greatest hits albums.

[Kiwi Player]

Below are the best pop rock bands:

1. Cheap Trick
2. REO Speedwagon
3. Supertramp
4. Journey
5. Boston

These ratings are irrefutable.

I hate all those bands which isn't a surprise cause I hate most pop. How can you call it pop rock? That is an oxymoron.

[poe4soul]

Along the same lines have you seen that modern day blind savant that can't button his own shirt that can play any song on the piano just hearing it once. He can replay it in any style, in any key, and any time. It's amazing how the mind works. You can be a complete retard in one thing and completely gifted in another. Then there's the rest of the masses that are just dull and mediocre in comparison to these savants. Even 'people like us' seem pale in comparison to some of these savants. It's all relative. I've tried my hand at music. I can play the notes but I'm not gifted enough to be an ottmar liebert, yo yo ma, hendrix, or the likes.
One thing is for sure MTV killed talent in rock-n-roll or pop music for that matter.

Here's the youtube of that savant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kwjDLHX92w It's pretty amazing.

[famousdavis]

Famousdavis needs to buy some real studio albums instead of basing his opinions on pop charts and greatest hits albums.

Kiwi,

I was very into music growing up. I was always the kid with the biggest record collection and I listened to the entire albums and liked many of the songs that were not popular and not on the charts.

I was a huge Beatles fan, even though I started liking them 8 years after they had broken up. I probably know the words to 95% of their songs. I was also a huge Kiss fan, Aerosmith, Ping Floyd, etc. I also like the new wave music that was essentially started by The Cars.

However, I notice a distinct trend here with guys like you. I've seen this all throughout my life with guys that feel a need to portray a macho image. You brag about how you like the "cool" bands like Led Zep, AC/DC, Rolling Stones, etc. You further brag about how you know all about their less popular stuff and that actually those less popular songs are really the best.

You make fun of the people that like the top 100 songs on the Billboard charts, even though you've got it cranked in your car when you're by yourself. If your friends had found out that your favorite song was Open Arms by Journey they would have disowned you.

Keep playing your forged, muscle back irons (even though you hate the sting in your hands half the time), keep playing your "cool" music like Pink Floyd, Led Zep and the unknown Devo songs (even though you hate listening to it) and keep drinking that dark, manly beer (even though you wish you had a Coors Light). Yes, that's right, keep doing all of these things just so you can feel like one of the manly men.

Meanwhile, the confident people won't worry about what others think when we play our music. I listen to the music I enjoy. I like some Village People songs and I like some AC/DC songs. I even like some Michael Buble songs and even some Air Supply songs. We're not in 5th grade anymore and we don't need to be so concerned about what other people think.

[lorenzoinoc]

Kiwi,

I was very into music growing up. I was always the kid with the biggest record collection and I listened to the entire albums and liked many of the songs that were not popular and not on the charts.

I was a huge Beatles fan, even though I started liking them 8 years after they had broken up. I probably know the words to 95% of their songs. I was also a huge Kiss fan, Aerosmith, Ping Floyd, etc. I also like the new wave music that was essentially started by The Cars.

However, I notice a distinct trend here with guys like you. I've seen this all throughout my life with guys that feel a need to portray a macho image. You brag about how you like the "cool" bands like Led Zep, AC/DC, Rolling Stones, etc. You further brag about how you know all about their less popular stuff and that actually those less popular songs are really the best.

You make fun of the people that like the top 100 songs on the Billboard charts, even though you've got it cranked in your car when you're by yourself. If your friends had found out that your favorite song was Open Arms by Journey they would have disowned you.

Keep playing your forged, muscle back irons (even though you hate the sting in your hands half the time), keep playing your "cool" music like Pink Floyd, Led Zep and the unknown Devo songs (even though you hate listening to it) and keep drinking that dark, manly beer (even though you wish you had a Coors Light). Yes, that's right, keep doing all of these things just so you can feel like one of the manly men.

Meanwhile, the confident people won't worry about what others think when we play our music. I listen to the music I enjoy. I like some Village People songs and I like some AC/DC songs. I even like some Michael Buble songs and even some Air Supply songs. We're not in 5th grade anymore and we don't need to be so concerned about what other people think.

I confessed to Jewel so I'm in a good position to arbitrate this discussion. You raise some good points but Village People, Air Supply and Steven Perry? I'd need a vomit bag next to me. I'm not sure the 1st Amendment includes that stuff, it should be censored out of existence.

I'm with you though on The Cars. I like music that sounds good on my system and all their stuff from way back when is great. I like the night life baby....she sa-ays.

[The Purist]

I hate all those bands which isn't a surprise cause I hate most pop. How can you call it pop rock? That is an oxymoron.

I might add Dave Matthews, Bare Naked Ladies, Jack Johnson...

Pop music is generally about getting paid and laid.

[famousdavis]

I confessed to Jewel so I'm in a good position to arbitrate this discussion. You raise some good points but Village People, Air Supply and Steven Perry? I'd need a vomit bag next to me. I'm not sure the 1st Amendment includes that stuff, it should be censored out of existence.

I'm with you though on The Cars. I like music that sounds good on my system and all their stuff from way back when is great. I like the night life baby....she sa-ays.

The Cars first album was revolutionary. No group had created that sound before. A mix of rock and sythesizers done to perfection. It spawned the whole new wave craze.

My point is that I had met tons of these guys in high school that would never admit to liking any kind of pop music, new wave music or slow songs. I played football with this one group of guys who gave me crap for liking Men at Work. How can you not like "Who can it beeeee Now?"

[Horseballs]

I might add Dave Matthews, Bare Naked Ladies, Jack Johnson...

Pop music is generally about getting paid and laid.

DMB is such a tragedy. They started out great and then sort of gave up. Like Pearl Jam. I saw them in concert 5-6 years ago and it was mostly Eddie Vedder sitting on a stool playing acoustic crap I've never heard of. He was berating the crowd because no one came to hear any of his artistic/political crap. We wanted stuff from 10 and their second disc (the orange one).

[The Purist]

Kiwi,

I was very into music growing up. I was always the kid with the biggest record collection and I listened to the entire albums and liked many of the songs that were not popular and not on the charts.

I was a huge Beatles fan, even though I started liking them 8 years after they had broken up. I probably know the words to 95% of their songs. I was also a huge Kiss fan, Aerosmith, Ping Floyd, etc. I also like the new wave music that was essentially started by The Cars.

However, I notice a distinct trend here with guys like you. I've seen this all throughout my life with guys that feel a need to portray a macho image. You brag about how you like the "cool" bands like Led Zep, AC/DC, Rolling Stones, etc. You further brag about how you know all about their less popular stuff and that actually those less popular songs are really the best.

You make fun of the people that like the top 100 songs on the Billboard charts, even though you've got it cranked in your car when you're by yourself. If your friends had found out that your favorite song was Open Arms by Journey they would have disowned you.

Keep playing your forged, muscle back irons (even though you hate the sting in your hands half the time), keep playing your "cool" music like Pink Floyd, Led Zep and the unknown Devo songs (even though you hate listening to it) and keep drinking that dark, manly beer (even though you wish you had a Coors Light). Yes, that's right, keep doing all of these things just so you can feel like one of the manly men.

Meanwhile, the confident people won't worry about what others think when we play our music. I listen to the music I enjoy. I like some Village People songs and I like some AC/DC songs. I even like some Michael Buble songs and even some Air Supply songs. We're not in 5th grade anymore and we don't need to be so concerned about what other people think.

This is easy for a guy from So Cal to say. If you come from the land down under (or nearabouts) jamming to Umm Bop in your Mazada Miata with the top down might just be a death sentence.

[poe4soul]

I confessed to Jewel so I'm in a good position to arbitrate this discussion. You raise some good points but Village People, Air Supply and Steven Perry? I'd need a vomit bag next to me. I'm not sure the 1st Amendment includes that stuff, it should be censored out of existence.

I'm with you though on The Cars. I like music that sounds good on my system and all their stuff from way back when is great. I like the night life baby....she sa-ays.

The Cars were fine but The Talking Heads were around long before and are better artist performers etc. I'll usually turn the station when a Cars' song comes on but still own and play talking heads song. Sugar On My Tongue is a song I'm sure you can relate to 'Zo.

Youtube - Sugar On My Tongue

BTW - I can't believe the Talking Heads weren't mentioned sooner. Psycho Killer

[lorenzoinoc]

Speaking of getting paid and laid, let's not forget Kid Rock, Eminem and Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg's lyrics alone are awesome.

[The Purist]

DMB is such a tragedy. They started out great and then sort of gave up. Like Pearl Jam. I saw them in concert 5-6 years ago and it was mostly Eddie Vedder sitting on a stool playing acoustic crap I've never heard of. He was berating the crowd because no one came to hear any of his artistic/political crap. We wanted stuff from 10 and their second disc (the orange one).

I sort of agree with you, but...

Dave and Eddie continued to make good music after Crash and Vs (orange cd). The problem was they also started releasing crap music. Their first 4 CDs combined pretty much had nothing but good songs. I could make a couple of good best of albums that contains no songs from their first couple of albums.

Sometimes, too much artistic freedom is a bad thing.

[Home-slicer]

Speaking of overrated musicians. Clapton is really slipping these days. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_M9z...e_gdata_player

[Kiwi Player]

Kiwi,

I was very into music growing up. I was always the kid with the biggest record collection and I listened to the entire albums and liked many of the songs that were not popular and not on the charts.

I was a huge Beatles fan, even though I started liking them 8 years after they had broken up. I probably know the words to 95% of their songs. I was also a huge Kiss fan, Aerosmith, Ping Floyd, etc. I also like the new wave music that was essentially started by The Cars.

However, I notice a distinct trend here with guys like you. I've seen this all throughout my life with guys that feel a need to portray a macho image. You brag about how you like the "cool" bands like Led Zep, AC/DC, Rolling Stones, etc. You further brag about how you know all about their less popular stuff and that actually those less popular songs are really the best.

You make fun of the people that like the top 100 songs on the Billboard charts, even though you've got it cranked in your car when you're by yourself. If your friends had found out that your favorite song was Open Arms by Journey they would have disowned you.

Keep playing your forged, muscle back irons (even though you hate the sting in your hands half the time), keep playing your "cool" music like Pink Floyd, Led Zep and the unknown Devo songs (even though you hate listening to it) and keep drinking that dark, manly beer (even though you wish you had a Coors Light). Yes, that's right, keep doing all of these things just so you can feel like one of the manly men.

Meanwhile, the confident people won't worry about what others think when we play our music. I listen to the music I enjoy. I like some Village People songs and I like some AC/DC songs. I even like some Michael Buble songs and even some Air Supply songs. We're not in 5th grade anymore and we don't need to be so concerned about what other people think.

ROFL - man you draw a long bow but I'll give you marks for hilarity!!!

I too was a big Beatles fan when I was about 8-10 years old as my older sister had all their albums. Probably explains why their music bores me to tears now. I don't like most heavy metal bands. I would define AC/DC more as hard rock.

And for the record I'll drink a pint of Guiness in Dublin in winter but the rest of the time I'll take lager thanks.

Anyway nice flame!

[Horseballs]

Speaking of getting paid and laid, let's not forget Kid Rock, Eminem and Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg's lyrics alone are awesome.

I still like Eminem. I never really liked Kid Rock, and Snoop has thoroughly sold out. He can still freestyle like a mofo though.
Zo, you must have penis ears if you think Jewel is a Dylan-like talent.

[Kiwi Player]

Let's face it. Most popular rock bands have as much true talent as the hot weather babe I'm watching right now on LA local TV. Very few intelligent people produce rock "music". Despite that, intelligent people like us tend to regard some of them as gifted even though it's likely we could leave them in the dust had we started drugs early and devoted our time playing in a band rather than college.

I try to enjoy what's out there while accepting that most are morons, particularly AC/DC, Kiss and Ozzy Osbourne.

Gotta call BS on this statement.

That's like saying we'd all be tour pro's if we'd picked up a golf club at age 4-5 instead of playing other sports and focusing on our school work.

[The Purist]

I still like Eminem. I never really liked Kid Rock, and Snoop has thoroughly sold out. He can still freestyle like a mofo though.
Zo, you must have penis ears if you think Jewel is a Dylan-like talent.

Jewel did have a pretty amazing rack back in the day...Do you think Madonna, Katie Perry, or Shania Twain is putting out hits without titz?

[lorenzoinoc]

The Cars were fine but The Talking Heads were around long before and are better artist performers etc. I'll usually turn the station when a Cars' song comes on but still own and play talking heads song. Sugar On My Tongue is a song I'm sure you can relate to 'Zo.

Youtube - Sugar On My Tongue

BTW - I can't believe the Talking Heads weren't mentioned sooner. Psycho Killer

They're both New England groups that emerged at about the same time. Since they both played live gigs locally in New England there's a good chance they stole from, I mean influenced each other.

I like the Talking Heads although David Byrne went to design school before TH and seems to be a little style conscious. In this video it's hard to tell whether he's being avant garde, goofing on his audience or both. Keep watching until past the point where he starts hitting himself in the head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-io-k...eature=related

[The Purist]

Speaking of getting paid and laid, let's not forget Kid Rock, Eminem and Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg's lyrics alone are awesome.

Just another feather in the cap for American music. We created rap and country.

Tupac, Snoop, Dre, Biggie, Outkast, and LL Cool J...all good

[lorenzoinoc]

I still like Eminem. I never really liked Kid Rock, and Snoop has thoroughly sold out. He can still freestyle like a mofo though.
Zo, you must have penis ears if you think Jewel is a Dylan-like talent.

Well, as a matter of fact I do have penis ears but she's the real deal. Ok, yes she's hot but I saw her in concert a couple of times in a small venue. During one of the shows she broke a string on her guitar and instead of grabbing a back-up, she sat there and re-strung and tuned her guitar while she told a few jokes and stories. After that I really wanted her to have my children.

True, Blood on the Tracks is all-time and her verse is a little more on the pop side, but I don't find Dylan at all physically attractive.

Of course Snoop sold out, we're taking Rap here, it's part of the genre. Noone writes cooler lyrics than Snoop. Noone's cooler than Snoop. He's about to do a tour with a comedian in some sort of strange format.

There's something about Rap and Country fused that's appealing to me, thus my penchant for Kid Rock.

[Horseballs]

Just another feather in the cap for American music. We created rap and country.

Tupac, Snoop, Dre, Biggie, Outkast, and LL Cool J...all good

Don't forget about the rest of NWA too.
Damn, Zo is right about rappers. If they live to see 30, they've probably sold out.
LL Cool J used to be the future of the funk, now he's a fricken cop on TV.
Ice T created the theme song for Colors, now he's also a damn pig on TV.
Ice Cube is doing kids' movies and failed sit-coms.
Dre is peddling Dr. Pepper and shills his own line of headphones. The rest of NWA is literally rolling in their graves, except for MC Ren who I think is still alive.
Fitty Cent is a principal owner of Vitamin Water.
Mace is done with the game and is now primarily an actor.

Part of me thinks Biggie, Tupac and Eazy-E are the lucky ones.