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  1. #1
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    American Airlines -The only time I applaud Chapter 11

    Good for American Airlines. They finally had enough of the labor union negotiations and did the only thing they could do-file for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. This is what it has come down to in this country for American businesses. Unions, in my opinion, once served their purpose in the first half of the 20th century. Now, they serve absolutely no purpose other than to pay people more than they are worth and protect them from getting fired, even if they deserve it. I've worked on projects where union labor is involved and it's absolutely amazing how difficult it is to deal with these people. For the most part they are overpaid, have attitudes and will jump at the chance to tell you what they are not required to do.

    So, here we have a company that had no choice but to file bankruptcy because of their soaring union labor costs. They could no longer be competitive.

    The only people who are in favor of unions are the ones who belong to them. Unions make American companies uncompetitive and next to impossible to record a profit. Even more important is the fact that Unions encourage workers to give much less than 100%. Funny enough, the Unions do require their members to give up part of their paycheck in the form of Union Dues. Go figure.

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    Oops, I posted this in the golf forum. However, my Union contract stipulates that I'm only required two keystrokes upon entering a forum prior to posting. Therefore I am within my rights.

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    No, it relates. Thanks to the unions and the 70% income tax rate in the 1950's, my father and his partner were forced to sell their factory which was non-union. Had they not had to sell, I probably would have been running it now for almost 40 years and playing golf almost every day from spring to late fall. Or be long dead having run my Ferrari or MV Agusta off the road whilst inebriated. Oh well.

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    I deal with unions all the time, and I wholeheartedly agree.
    In my job, we always end up changing staffing requirements away from many administrative employees, to few analyst type employees. In union shops, the clients don't realize any benefit because all the admin jobs are protected. We had one lady whose job became playing Solitaire.
    I also worked at a place where we wanted to fire this ancient battle ax who was on our team (through seniority in a union position). Because of bumping rights, we would have had to layoff a dozen people before this useless malcontent could be shown the door.
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    I had an iron-clad rule to never do business with unions. So I only did so occasionally. But I avoided San Francisco because you know up front you have to go union.

    I still did plenty of bus in the Bay Area and would stay in SF. This time of year I'd do all my Christmas shopping around Market and 10th. For the west coast you can get that X-Mas feeling more there than anywhere else I've been. After shopping I'd pop into one of the nearby restaurants that would all be mobbed and make friends.

    I like to buy women clothes and shoes as gifts. It not only reveals my sensitive, tasteful side but they love it and will blow you for it.

    My technique is to ask a saleswoman if they have someone with the same dimensions as my gf. From there things usually get kind of fun. While doing this for someone I was only casually dating, the salesgirl said: "Well, that is my size and dimensions." I looked at her disbelievingly because I had specifically said "large C or D." She adjusted her dress to prove she was qualified. By the way she did it I could tell she wanted to compete with my gf.

    Well, I believe in competition. True story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    I had an iron-clad rule to never do business with unions. So I only did so occasionally. But I avoided San Francisco because you know up front you have to go union.

    I still did plenty of bus in the Bay Area and would stay in SF. This time of year I'd do all my Christmas shopping around Market and 10th. For the west coast you can get that X-Mas feeling more there than anywhere else I've been. After shopping I'd pop into one of the nearby restaurants that would all be mobbed and make friends.

    I like to buy women clothes and shoes as gifts. It not only reveals my sensitive, tasteful side but they love it and will blow you for it.

    My technique is to ask a saleswoman if they have someone with the same dimensions as my gf. From there things usually get kind of fun. While doing this for someone I was only casually dating, the salesgirl said: "Well, that is my size and dimensions." I looked at her disbelievingly because I had specifically said "large C or D." She adjusted her dress to prove she was qualified. By the way she did it I could tell she wanted to compete with my gf.

    Well, I believe in competition. True story.
    That's the best shopping area I've ever been to at Christmas Time. It's just the perfect setting and can't be beat. San Francisco is my favorite city to visit and I think it and New York are the best cities in the country. I couldn't live in either one but I love visiting. If I had unlimited funds I'd live in one of those home near Presidio overlooking the Bay with a view of the Golden Gate Bridge. Of course, those homes are $25,000,000. Actually, if I had my pick I'd probably choose a home along the 17 mile drive in Carmel, right off of Pebble Beach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    That's the best shopping area I've ever been to at Christmas Time. It's just the perfect setting and can't be beat. San Francisco is my favorite city to visit and I think it and New York are the best cities in the country. I couldn't live in either one but I love visiting. If I had unlimited funds I'd live in one of those home near Presidio overlooking the Bay with a view of the Golden Gate Bridge. Of course, those homes are $25,000,000. Actually, if I had my pick I'd probably choose a home along the 17 mile drive in Carmel, right off of Pebble Beach.
    I had a condo in Hawaii I recently sold. Obviously it wasn't a great time to sell but I was able to do it without a loss. Now I'm looking for a place on the mainland as an occasional hideout. Just a little two bedroom condo somewhere if it's urban or a bungalow if rural.

    SF is near the top of my list. I couldn't live there permanently either but I could see a few days at a time. I'm also thinking Bend, Bandon Dunes, Portland and a number of places on the water within a couple of hours drive of Seattle. I don't like the desert because it's too f.ucking hot for me. I like it 59 degrees.

    Right now you can buy something almost anywhere and make some money in a few years. Ok, maybe 10-15 years.

    I'm seriously thinking about places near the panhandle with a partial view of the bridge. Prices have really adjusted.
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    Bargain!

    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    If I had unlimited funds I'd live in one of those home near Presidio overlooking the Bay with a view of the Golden Gate Bridge. Of course, those homes are $25,000,000.

    http://www.trulia.com/for_sale/1459_nh/price;d_sort

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    The one at the top of the list for around $2.6M has the highest tax assessement/s.f. outside of land whose value depends in large part on gross sales/s.f. Doesn't look like straight people live there.

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    Those homes are in San Francisco but are not in the area I was talking about. There is a very small community on the bluffs overlooking the Bay very close to the Golden Gate Bridge. There is a public beach down below. Most of the people who live there are old money.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Doesn't look like straight people live there.
    That is some pretty tasteless interior dec. isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Good for American Airlines. They finally had enough of the labor union negotiations and did the only thing they could do-file for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. This is what it has come down to in this country for American businesses. Unions, in my opinion, once served their purpose in the first half of the 20th century. Now, they serve absolutely no purpose other than to pay people more than they are worth and protect them from getting fired, even if they deserve it. I've worked on projects where union labor is involved and it's absolutely amazing how difficult it is to deal with these people. For the most part they are overpaid, have attitudes and will jump at the chance to tell you what they are not required to do.

    So, here we have a company that had no choice but to file bankruptcy because of their soaring union labor costs. They could no longer be competitive.

    The only people who are in favor of unions are the ones who belong to them. Unions make American companies uncompetitive and next to impossible to record a profit. Even more important is the fact that Unions encourage workers to give much less than 100%. Funny enough, the Unions do require their members to give up part of their paycheck in the form of Union Dues. Go figure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    Best post you have ever made. If anyone disagrees with your post, they are dumbsheets.

    You forgot to invite them to Oklahoma for a hunting trip.

    They could also come fishing with me a couple of miles off the coast, in deep water, away from other boats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24putts View Post
    That is some pretty tasteless interior dec. isn't it?
    Its the abstract prints on both sides of the master (or should I type "Mistress"?) bed that gives it away Bet all the carpets are scrupulously clean, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    There is a very small community on the bluffs overlooking the Bay very close to the Golden Gate Bridge. There is a public beach down below. Most of the people who live there are old money.
    Actually that house is in the area you're talking about, it just doesn't have a water view. The area, overlooking Baker Beach, is called Sea Cliff. And no, it's not all old money. Robin Williams lives there, for example. Weird guy. He hires a live-in chef, and the guy has to sign a contract that he can't tell anyone who he works for.

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    Since unionization is down to 11% now in the USA I don't understand what any of your problems are... Unionization was only 30% pre-Reagan, still really not enough to be a factor.

    Want personal experience? Fine, I used to have a lot of friends who worked at Motorola in Western NY, never ever a union shop. In spite of not having a union, all those jobs are Chinese now.

    Next argument please... stop using unions as a scapegoat and find a real reason...
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS View Post
    Since unionization is down to 11% now in the USA I don't understand what any of your problems are... Unionization was only 30% pre-Reagan, still really not enough to be a factor.

    Want personal experience? Fine, I used to have a lot of friends who worked at Motorola in Western NY, never ever a union shop. In spite of not having a union, all those jobs are Chinese now.

    Next argument please... stop using unions as a scapegoat and find a real reason...
    Three things the countries where the factories and jobs went don't have that we do. Unions, stringent federal environmental regulations, and judicial systems heavily biased towards the plaintiff. Combine all three and upstate New York is an economic wasteland. And its certainly not alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS View Post
    Since unionization is down to 11% now in the USA I don't understand what any of your problems are... Unionization was only 30% pre-Reagan, still really not enough to be a factor.

    Want personal experience? Fine, I used to have a lot of friends who worked at Motorola in Western NY, never ever a union shop. In spite of not having a union, all those jobs are Chinese now.

    Next argument please... stop using unions as a scapegoat and find a real reason...
    We all know the reason Motorola packed up and left. Buffalo sucks.
    That must have been the only factory in all of Western NY that wasn't unionized. The frickin county gov. of Buffalo had 8 union and 14 contracts. The slimiest people I ever met were the union stewards in Erie County.
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    Unions are a good idea in concept, but they often fail in practice. Unions give employees more power and protection, but they also tend to abuse this power and protection...plus not all employees deserve to be protected.

    Its not just unions that fail though. The good ole boy network of executives and their bonus structures also tends to fail in practice. In 2009, American Airlines lost 1.5 billion dollars, and the CEO made 3+ million in bonuses. Bonuses are generally a good idea if they are paid out for being successful, but paying out bonuses to executives who are failing miserably is not such a good idea.

    I feel a little bit sorry for the pensioners, but not too sorry for them. Its foolish to put all of your apples in one cart. Most companies don't last forever, and just working for a company 30+ years should give you a pretty good idea of how poorly its run.
    Last edited by The Purist; 12-01-2011 at 08:09 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Unions are a good idea in concept, but they often fail in practice. Unions give employees more power and protection, but they also tend to abuse this power and protection...plus not all employees deserve to be protected.

    Its not just unions that fail though. The good ole boy network of executives and their bonus structures also tends to fail in practice. In 2009, American Airlines lost 1.5 billion dollars, and the CEO made 3+ million in bonuses. Bonuses are generally a good idea if they are paid out for being successful, but paying out bonuses to executives who are failing miserably is not such a good idea.

    I feel a little bit sorry for the pensioners, but not too sorry for them. Its foolish to put all of your apples in one cart. Most companies don't last forever, and just working for a company 30+ years should give you a pretty idea of how poorly its run.
    Who says they had all of their apples in one cart? The fact remains that the company DID have a pension plan and many of the employees believed they had a nice additional nest egg for when they retired. Many of these people probably have additional investments such as 401Ks, savings accounts, stocks, etc. but the fact remains that their pension account is now at risk.

    It would suck if you were 60 years old, had $400,000 in your pension fund and now were told that it may be worth $100K or even less.

    You know what gets really yucky is that many of the pilots who just retired a year or two ago or even retired early had pensions as high as $1,000,000. Some of them opted for lump sum payments so they already have their money. Can you imagine those pilots who took lump sums meeting for breakfast with their pilot pals who are still working for AA and won't receive anything? The ones who argued with them that they shouldn't retire early because they won't get the full benefit of their pension? You know how that goes. The guys who retired last year and took the lump sum are laughing at the guys who are still working or saying "I told you so".

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Unions are a good idea in concept, but they often fail in practice. Unions give employees more power and protection, but they also tend to abuse this power and protection...plus not all employees deserve to be protected.

    Its not just unions that fail though. The good ole boy network of executives and their bonus structures also tends to fail in practice. In 2009, American Airlines lost 1.5 billion dollars, and the CEO made 3+ million in bonuses. Bonuses are generally a good idea if they are paid out for being successful, but paying out bonuses to executives who are failing miserably is not such a good idea.

    I feel a little bit sorry for the pensioners, but not too sorry for them. Its foolish to put all of your apples in one cart. Most companies don't last forever, and just working for a company 30+ years should give you a pretty good idea of how poorly its run.
    Your credibility is equal to Larry's in my book. You're just a resentful little boy.

    You have a choice here, you can either resolve things with daddy or commit your entire life to stupidity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Unions are a good idea in concept, but they often fail in practice. Unions give employees more power and protection, but they also tend to abuse this power and protection...plus not all employees deserve to be protected.

    Its not just unions that fail though. The good ole boy network of executives and their bonus structures also tends to fail in practice. In 2009, American Airlines lost 1.5 billion dollars, and the CEO made 3+ million in bonuses. Bonuses are generally a good idea if they are paid out for being successful, but paying out bonuses to executives who are failing miserably is not such a good idea.

    I feel a little bit sorry for the pensioners, but not too sorry for them. Its foolish to put all of your apples in one cart. Most companies don't last forever, and just working for a company 30+ years should give you a pretty good idea of how poorly its run.
    Maybe he did a great job and deserved the bonus. Just because a company loses money doesn't mean that the CEO did a bad job. He may have done a great job at keeping the labor unions at bay and may have avoided much bigger losses in the future.

    A $3M paycheck to a CEO is not a big deal considering the talent pool is so limited for someone who actually has the talent to run an entire company. Most CEO's are worth what they are paid, despite what most people think. There are very few people who have enough talent to be a CEO. That's why they are paid the big bucks, supply and demand.

    Haven't you ever been a part of some kind of governing board like a homeowner's association, PTA, neighborhood group or even a sports team where everything is screwed up because of the leadership? Then, this person comes along who is suddenly able to organize everything and get everyone moving in the same direction and toward the same goal. All of a sudden everyone is energized, happy and feeling secure. That's what a CEO does but on a much larger scale. Only 1 in a million people have the gift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    Your credibility is equal to Larry's in my book. You're just a resentful little boy.

    You have a choice here, you can either resolve things with daddy or commit your entire life to stupidity.
    So if you owned a company, and the person you put in charge lost 1.5 billion dollars in 1 year, you would reward him with 3 million in bonuses on top of his 2 million dollar salary? No you wouldn't. You'd fire him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    So if you owned a company, and the person you put in charge lost 1.5 billion dollars in 1 year, you would reward him with 3 million in bonuses on top of his 2 million dollar salary? No you wouldn't. You'd fire him.

    TP, I mean this with genuine kindness, your perspective has you focusing on a small part of the picture based on assumptions you don't know are true. Firstly, boards of directors bear personal liability without commensurate compensation and they've often run companies themselves. It's not only possible what FD described is exactly what's going on, it's highly likely.

    You can't be on the outside and draw conclusions on compensastion. He might have kept the company from losing more. Or not but got a market deal when he signed on.

    When you point to fairness before basic economics, and again I mean this with kindness, it smacks of axe-grinding and immaturity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Maybe he did a great job and deserved the bonus. Just because a company loses money doesn't mean that the CEO did a bad job. He may have done a great job at keeping the labor unions at bay and may have avoided much bigger losses in the future.

    A $3M paycheck to a CEO is not a big deal considering the talent pool is so limited for someone who actually has the talent to run an entire company. Most CEO's are worth what they are paid, despite what most people think. There are very few people who have enough talent to be a CEO. That's why they are paid the big bucks, supply and demand.

    Haven't you ever been a part of some kind of governing board like a homeowner's association, PTA, neighborhood group or even a sports team where everything is screwed up because of the leadership? Then, this person comes along who is suddenly able to organize everything and get everyone moving in the same direction and toward the same goal. All of a sudden everyone is energized, happy and feeling secure. That's what a CEO does but on a much larger scale. Only 1 in a million people have the gift.
    Making money is what its all about. You don't reward failure in this country. That's socialism.

    Plus, why would you want to be a good CEO running a company that cannot turn profits. Its shows you either lack options or you really aren't that good of a decision maker.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    TP, I mean this with genuine kindness, you're perspective has you focusing on a small part of the picture based on assumptions you don't know are true. Firstly, boards of directors bear personal liability without commensurate compensation and they've often run companies themselves. It's not only possible what FD described is exactly what's going on, it's highly likely.

    You can't be on the outside and draw conclusions on compensastion. He might have kept the company from losing more. Or not but got a market deal when he signed on.

    When you point to fairness before basic economics, and again I mean this with kindness, it smacks of axe-grinding and immaturity.
    I don't recall ever mentioning the word fair. What axe am I grinding. That I think its stupid to reward failure?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    I don't recall ever mentioning the word fair. What axe am I grinding. That I think its stupid to reward failure?
    It percolates through all of your posts. Why even focus on $3M when you're looking at a $1.5B problem? Your axe here is resenting someone who went out and achieved financial success.

    How can you rationally assume failure with limited facts when common sense ought to tell you the opposite is likely? That, in and of itself, says agenda. I guess it's possible you don't realize it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Making money is what its all about. You don't reward failure in this country. That's socialism.

    Plus, why would you want to be a good CEO running a company that cannot turn profits. Its shows you either lack options or you really aren't that good of a decision maker.
    At one time Lee Iacocca, Steve Jobs and Howard Schultz did that very thing. The companies that are losing money are the ones that need the best CEO's. Ebay practically runs itself. How hard would that be?

    On your other point about making money, achieving less losses is, in fact, making money.

    Let's say you're in Operations and work for Burger King. Sales are down everywhere and your 18 stores were projected a year to year loss of 18%. However, at year end you show only a loss of 9%. That is a success and should be rewarded. You saved the company money and beat your projections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    It percolates through all of your posts. Why even focus on $3M when you're looking at a $1.5B problem? Your axe here is resenting someone who went out and achieved financial success.

    How can you rationally assume failure with limited facts when common sense ought to tell you the opposite is likely? That in and of itself says agenda.
    That's life brother. The man at the top gets all the accolades when things are going well and all the blame when things go bad. Don't be so sensitive. I think you are getting defensive about some kind of personal message in between the lines that isn't there. If it makes you feel better, I think you have value.

    The value isn't in the position held, its in the person holding the position. Look at Jobs...he was an excellent CEO that managed to increase his company's value even in a poor economy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    At one time Lee Iacocca, Steve Jobs and Howard Schultz did that very thing. The companies that are losing money are the ones that need the best CEO's. Ebay practically runs itself. How hard would that be?

    On your other point about making money, achieving less losses is, in fact, making money.

    Let's say you're in Operations and work for Burger King. Sales are down everywhere and your 18 stores were projected a year to year loss of 18%. However, at year end you show only a loss of 9%. That is a success and should be rewarded. You saved the company money and beat your projections.
    Bad example, they didn't take a good company an let it go bankrupt. They took a start up company and grew it from nothing.

    No, its not making money. Its losing less than you thought you'd lose.

    Beating your loss goals would be a good reason for someone keeping their job or taking less of a pay cut, not bonuses. Rewards and bonuses should be withheld until profits start turning again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Bad example, they didn't take a good company an let it go bankrupt. They took a start up company and grew it from nothing.

    No, its not making money. Its losing less than you thought you'd lose.

    Beating your loss goals would be a good reason for someone keeping their job or taking less of a pay cut, not bonuses. Rewards and bonuses should be withheld until profits start turning again.
    No, Lee Iacocca took over Chrysler when it was in horrible shape and Steve Jobs took back the job of CEO when Apple was selling for $3 a share back in, I believe, 2001 or 2002.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Lee Iacocca took over Chrysler when it was in horrible shape
    I remember those days. An amazing triumph of marketing over substance. Lee would appear on your TV with this big smile telling you how wonderful his "K-cars" were, and people ate it up. Of course, they were pure poo. Never ceases to amaze how gullible American consumers can be. I still see '84 Civic Wagons on the road, but no K-cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 24putts View Post
    I remember those days. An amazing triumph of marketing over substance. Lee would appear on your TV with this big smile telling you how wonderful his "K-cars" were, and people ate it up. Of course, they were pure poo. Never ceases to amaze how gullible American consumers can be. I still see '84 Civic Wagons on the road, but no K-cars.
    I couldn't agree more. Saturn is another good example. People all over the Mid-West and South got all excited over the idea of belonging to the "Saturn Family". Remember those stupid ads about how you got free donuts whenever you had to bring in your car to the Saturn dealer? What kind of morons would place value on getting free donuts or buy-in to the idea of belonging to the Saturn Family?

    I drive an Acura and the thing has 80K miles on it and the only thing I've ever done to it is have regular oil changes, replaced the tires and replaced the brakes. It has never needed to be repaired for any reason. Everything works perfectly.

    I travel now and then and always get a rental car. It's always an American car, usually something like a Ford Fusion or similar Chevy model. These cars don't come close to comparing with their Japanese counterparts. Everything looks cheaper and less ergo. The new Honda Accord is like a luxury car compared to a similar American sudan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    I couldn't agree more. Saturn is another good example. People all over the Mid-West and South got all excited over the idea of belonging to the "Saturn Family". Remember those stupid ads about how you got free donuts whenever you had to bring in your car to the Saturn dealer? What kind of morons would place value on getting free donuts or buy-in to the idea of belonging to the Saturn Family?

    I drive an Acura and the thing has 80K miles on it and the only thing I've ever done to it is have regular oil changes, replaced the tires and replaced the brakes. It has never needed to be repaired for any reason. Everything works perfectly.

    I travel now and then and always get a rental car. It's always an American car, usually something like a Ford Fusion or similar Chevy model. These cars don't come close to comparing with their Japanese counterparts. Everything looks cheaper and less ergo. The new Honda Accord is like a luxury car compared to a similar American sudan.
    Where do you think most Hondas and Toyotas are made? Japan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Where do you think most Hondas and Toyotas are made? Japan?
    The issue is obviously design. I thought I read it on this board, but apparently the Japanese mfgs. have cleverly arranged things such that the assembly activity that takes place in their U.S. operations is very basic, so that domestic workers can't screw it up. This would comport, by the way, with trends in the service sector. The whole reason there are so many meetings is because few people are permitted to exercise any individual discretion or initiative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 24putts View Post
    The issue is obviously design. I thought I read it on this board, but apparently the Japanese mfgs. have cleverly arranged things such that the assembly activity that takes place in their U.S. operations is very basic, so that domestic workers can't screw it up. This would comport, by the way, with trends in the service sector. The whole reason there are so many meetings is because few people are permitted to exercise any individual discretion or initiative.
    We currently have two vehicles. A Suzuki SUV with the engine made in Japan (same as the Cadillac CTS V-6) and the rest made and assembled in Canada. It has been a very reliable and enjoyable vehicle for the past 3.5 years. My work car is an 11 year old Dodge Neon. According to the doorplate, it was made in Mexico. It is a model year 2000 which was a total re-design year led by German engineers after their takeover of Chrysler. Prior to that, I had a 1996 Neon that was made in USA. It self-destructed. The German-Mexican one just keeps on ticking. Modern mass production is designed to leave little discretion to the humans working on the lines save for "stop" buttons to push to shut down lines when someone sees a FUBAR condition. If you want to drive something made by real men exercising discretion and the care of hands-on crafting, you'll have to fork out for a Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, high end Audi etc. The last time I was in Germany was 1965 and all the locals were griping about the fact that most of the auto factory workers were Turks since the war had decimated the ranks of skilled craftsmen. I have been driving legally since 1963 and have personally experienced the evolution of the automobile, especially domestic products, from overweight under-engineered gas-sucking behemoths to the sophisticated fuel-efficient machines you can buy today. The fact that you can buy the run of the mill bottom end American sedan and just visit Jiffy-Lube regularly for oil and fluid changes and trans and coolant flushes and refills and expect 100,000+ miles blows my mind. I remember when you had to take your big hunk of American iron in to a shop every 6,000 miles for a full tune-up and, if you were lucky, the top end of the motor would last 40,000 miles. When I was a kid, every body traded theirs in when they reached 35,000-50,000 miles. Nowadays, they are almost all just broken in at that point regardless if they are made by Jose, Chin, Mohammed, Soichiro, Francois, Antoine, or Antwan. Or Robby the Robot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    That's life brother. The man at the top gets all the accolades when things are going well and all the blame when things go bad. Don't be so sensitive. I think you are getting defensive about some kind of personal message in between the lines that isn't there. If it makes you feel better, I think you have value.

    The value isn't in the position held, its in the person holding the position. Look at Jobs...he was an excellent CEO that managed to increase his company's value even in a poor economy.

    What planet are you on? Let me guess: Daddywipesyouranus? I'm not defensive, in fact I'm joyful I had the guts to take on the world instead of just whine and cry about it like a little girl. I'm sure glad I'm not that "guy".
    GR lives...

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    Union: CEO Compared Workers To Cancerous Tumor
    Thu, 12/01/2011 - 9:30am
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    FARGO, N.D. (AP) — Union representatives of locked-out employees at American Crystal Sugar Co. are criticizing the company president and CEO for what they call anti-worker sentiments.

    The union released audio recordings Wednesday of CEO David Berg telling shareholders a story about a friend with cancer and saying, "We can't let a labor contract make us sick forever and ever. We have to treat the disease and that's what we're doing here."

    The union says Berg was likening the workers to a 21-pound cancerous tumor.

    Company spokesman Brian Ingulsrud did not immediately return a phone message.

    Union workers planned a prayer vigil Wednesday evening outside company headquarters in Moorhead, Minn., to mark the fifth month of the lockout.

    About 1,300 workers have been locked out at plants in North Dakota, Minnesota and Iowa.

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    Union: CEO Compared Workers To Cancerous Tumor
    Thu, 12/01/2011 - 9:30am
    Get today's manufacturing headlines and news - Sign up now!
    FARGO, N.D. (AP) — Union representatives of locked-out employees at American Crystal Sugar Co. are criticizing the company president and CEO for what they call anti-worker sentiments.

    The union released audio recordings Wednesday of CEO David Berg telling shareholders a story about a friend with cancer and saying, "We can't let a labor contract make us sick forever and ever. We have to treat the disease and that's what we're doing here."

    The union says Berg was likening the workers to a 21-pound cancerous tumor.

    Company spokesman Brian Ingulsrud did not immediately return a phone message.

    Union workers planned a prayer vigil Wednesday evening outside company headquarters in Moorhead, Minn., to mark the fifth month of the lockout.

    About 1,300 workers have been locked out at plants in North Dakota, Minnesota and Iowa.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471 View Post
    Union: CEO Compared Workers To Cancerous Tumor
    Thu, 12/01/2011 - 9:30am
    Get today's manufacturing headlines and news - Sign up now!
    FARGO, N.D. (AP) — Union representatives of locked-out employees at American Crystal Sugar Co. are criticizing the company president and CEO for what they call anti-worker sentiments.

    The union released audio recordings Wednesday of CEO David Berg telling shareholders a story about a friend with cancer and saying, "We can't let a labor contract make us sick forever and ever. We have to treat the disease and that's what we're doing here."

    The union says Berg was likening the workers to a 21-pound cancerous tumor.

    Company spokesman Brian Ingulsrud did not immediately return a phone message.

    Union workers planned a prayer vigil Wednesday evening outside company headquarters in Moorhead, Minn., to mark the fifth month of the lockout.

    About 1,300 workers have been locked out at plants in North Dakota, Minnesota and Iowa.
    I think Unions are more like constipation. Everything gets backed up, takes forever to get done and afterward you have a horrible mess to wipe up with a bunch of dingleberries hanging around. Pain in the arse.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    I think Unions are more like constipation. Everything gets backed up, takes forever to get done and afterward you have a horrible mess to wipe up with a bunch of dingleberries hanging around. Pain in the arse.
    30 yrs ago when I was a young engineer, I ran an experiment in a 1000-gal reactor at a plant, when it's time to add chemicals to control the reaction, a union worker did not allow me to open the reactor because he's on break... I told him that you better open it now because the whole plant could be exploded in 5 minutes and that's enough for him to run back and open the feed port for me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471 View Post
    30 yrs ago when I was a young engineer, I ran an experiment in a 1000-gal reactor at a plant, when it's time to add chemicals to control the reaction, a union worker did not allow me to open the reactor because he's on break... I told him that you better open it now because the whole plant could be exploded in 5 minutes and that's enough for him to run back and open the feed port for me...
    When I was on active duty in the military in the 1960's, the Dutch army unionized. This allowed some of their soldiers to wear their hair long and shoot heroin. Wonderful allies in NATO actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    When I was on active duty in the military in the 1960's, the Dutch army unionized. This allowed some of their soldiers to wear their hair long and shoot heroin. Wonderful allies in NATO actions.

    The Dutch are weird. They deserve all the problems they're starting to have with Muslims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 24putts View Post
    The Dutch are weird. They deserve all the problems they're starting to have with Muslims.
    Yeah, every culture I've been exposed to has its idiosyncrasies but the Dutch are downright insane, particularly the men. It can make for some fun times there though. Most of Europe has a Muslim problem.
    GR lives...

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    I had a condo in Hawaii I recently sold. Obviously it wasn't a great time to sell but I was able to do it without a loss. Now I'm looking for a place on the mainland as an occasional hideout. Just a little two bedroom condo somewhere if it's urban or a bungalow if rural.

    SF is near the top of my list. I couldn't live there permanently either but I could see a few days at a time. I'm also thinking Bend, Bandon Dunes, Portland and a number of places on the water within a couple of hours drive of Seattle. I don't like the desert because it's too f.ucking hot for me. I like it 59 degrees.

    Right now you can buy something almost anywhere and make some money in a few years. Ok, maybe 10-15 years.

    I'm seriously thinking about places near the panhandle with a partial view of the bridge. Prices have really adjusted.
    How much you get for that timeshare in Hawaii?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskyhater View Post
    How much you get for that timeshare in Hawaii?
    I think his share of time on that unit was 24/7 365.

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