We have our stable of long term investments ---stock holdings, mutuals, savings/CD accounts, etc....
But this year, I starting dabbling in the market on my own. Set up a brokerage acct thru my core plan here at work. Transferred a piece of the pie and started doing my own investing.
Just wondering if anyone else did their own investing in the market.
We have our stable of long term investments ---stock holdings, mutuals, savings/CD accounts, etc....
But this year, I starting dabbling in the market on my own. Set up a brokerage acct thru my core plan here at work. Transferred a piece of the pie and started doing my own investing.
Just wondering if anyone else did their own investing in the market.
I did,,, not anymore... There was time that I tracked the stock market (moved money out when high, jumped back in when low) and made decent money... I am at the point to let my money ride, in fact my portfolio is 60stock/ 40bond... My suggestion for young GR (25-35) is save as much as you could, $50, $100, $200 etc... whatever you could... put them in high risk stock and you have plenty of time to ride the storms... If your company matches for 401K contribution then at least put in enough to get the max.match from your company... It's free money.
I did,,, not anymore... There was time that I tracked the stock market (moved money out when high, jumped back in when low) and made decent money... I am at the point to let my money ride, in fact my portfolio is 60stock/ 40bond... My suggestion for young GR (25-35) is save as much as you could, $50, $100, $200 etc... whatever you could... put them in high risk stock and you have plenty of time to ride the storms... If your company matches for 401K contribution then at least put in enough to get the max.match from your company... It's free money.
Im trying to retire in 15 years. Thats my goal. I work for a gov't agency so we dont get 401k. We have 457 plans. No employer contribution. I do not pay social security, rather I pay into public employees retirement.
We up our contributions to mutuals annually to keep pumping money into them. Their performance is pedestrain though, getting 8%-10% return average (we have 2 funds and contribute equal amounts into them).
Ive been 'following' the money, buying into good news on companies,etc....takeover targets, IPO's, momentum trading I suppose. I might throw a few thousand at Facebook next week and see what it does. Have also been tracking when companies pay dividends, then buy into the company a couple weeks prior to the dividend to capture the payout.
Been doing alright. Better than my mutuals over the same timeframe.
Their performance is pedestrain though, getting 8%-10% return average (we have 2 funds and contribute equal amounts into them).
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If you CONSISTENTLY get 8%-10% return on the average... then that's good return on investment,,, high risk stock funds will get you 10%-12% return on the average,,, but with higher risks.
Think this way... Inflation is 2%-4% on the average, so if our investment makes 8%-10% on the average then we are way ahead of the game.... DON'T BE GREEDY... that's when we lose our shirts and someone would have to work way into the 70s because they invested in some unknown areas where they are told that they would get 30% return every year... Yeah right !!!
I live and breathe the market. I'm also currently working towards getting my CFA charter.
I'd suggest you read books on investor psychology and how to build a portfolio with your long term goals in mind. However, thinking you're going to outperform the market by doing some miniscule amount of company research is a fools game. There are guys that spend their entire day researching companies and can't outperform the market. It's one thing to do it as a hobby with the understanding that you'll probably lose. It's another to think you have a sharp enough mind that you can beat professionals at an already rigged game.
I live and breathe the market. I'm also currently working towards getting my CFA charter.
I'd suggest you read books on investor psychology and how to build a portfolio with your long term goals in mind. However, thinking you're going to outperform the market by doing some miniscule amount of company research is a fools game. There are guys that spend their entire day researching companies and can't outperform the market. It's one thing to do it as a hobby with the understanding that you'll probably lose. It's another to think you have a sharp enough mind that you can beat professionals at an already rigged game.
I would like to spend some time discussing with you. Thx.
We have our stable of long term investments ---stock holdings, mutuals, savings/CD accounts, etc....
But this year, I starting dabbling in the market on my own. Set up a brokerage acct thru my core plan here at work. Transferred a piece of the pie and started doing my own investing.
Just wondering if anyone else did their own investing in the market.
This is just my personal opinion and nothing else. I think the worst thing you could ever do with your money is get into Day Trading or even buying and selling stocks short term (within the same year). Again, it's just my opinion but I can say with almost absolute certainty that if you move forward with this you will lose a lot of money.
It doesn't matter if you read the Wall Street Journal or several books on investing in the stock market. The people who write those books are doing so because they make money by selling books, nothing more. If they new what the market was going to do they wouldn't waste time writing books, they would make millions from investing.
Also, the worst thing that could happen to you in your new venture is to be successful at first. You'll believe that you are either lucky or that you know what you're doing. It will give you a false sense of confidence.
Anything you read about a stock in the WSJ or anywhere else is already part of the stock's value. In other words, it doesn't matter how much research you do into a company because that value has already been captured and the price has been adjusted accordingly. That's because there are thousands of people on Wall Street who do this for a living and get the inside information before you do. They invest millions and the price of the stock adjusts before you even read the news.
There is no research you can do to give yourself an advantage, unless you know someone personally that works at the company who can give you inside information, which is illegal. Even then, there is no certainty.
Keep your money in your retirement savings, pick an investment strategy that's risk is in line with your current age and retiremen and then don't ever touch it. Don't even watch the market.
Depending on your age, with this kind of strategy you want the market to go up and down. I look at the market over the last 20 years and the best times were when the market fell in 2000 and then again in 2008. Why? Because with my 401K and pension I automatically invest a certain amount o money every two weeks. I was buying at low prices in 2000 and 2006 and the mutual funds that were down back then are now back up to previous levels and the constributions I made back then are up by almost 100%.
Again, don't do it. Biggest mistake you'll ever make.
I'm dating a bond manager. I know others have different investment strategies.
I really am.
As Buddha alluded to, the markets are rigged and its a closed game. The only way to profit is through inside information. Dating a bond manager, you are probably getting inside. Information. Now managing bonds is quite difficult. Akin the herding cats. Now the el primo dating partner would be a senior-level principal in a heavy weight investment banking firm. I knew some people here in town that worked for a 200 year old investment banking firm that threw a bit of capital at a couple of long-hair geek freeks who developed a computer in a garage. The bankers brought the little company public and took boatloads of stock shares in trade for their services. Turned out profitable for the bankers. Microsoft was the company and the IPO was around '83 if fading memory serves.
Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.
I don't know of anyone who made money in Day Trading .... none
I do. A lot of them. The market isn't completely efficient due to human behavior (fear and greed) and there are opportunities to make money. However, most people don't have the discipline and skills necessary to do so.
I don't know of anyone who made money in Day Trading .... none
I know a couple who did pretty well. I dont know the amount of trading they did, but they would often buy/sell within minutes or hours. Im not sure what they bought or how they went about their business. Im not sure how much $$$ they made either.....
All I know is while my arse was working 9-5 they were golfing by noon almost everyday.....Ive lost touch with them so who knows, maybe they ended up losing everything and had to work like the rest of us....
We have our stable of long term investments ---stock holdings, mutuals, savings/CD accounts, etc....
But this year, I starting dabbling in the market on my own. Set up a brokerage acct thru my core plan here at work. Transferred a piece of the pie and started doing my own investing.
Just wondering if anyone else did their own investing in the market.
I do a lot of investing in the market. But I also read the WSJ and watch FNC and CNBC (Kudlow report). The impending EU situation will be taking our market down for months. But FAR bigger is the impending giant tax increases due in January unless the congress acts fast to stop them. Those will take the market down AT LEAST 30% and possibly more! Be out in cash if you are wise. I am mostly out now because of the French and Greece elections. Socialists are never good for business. The new French president is talking about 75% tax on the rich. Good luck with that, the "rich" will be gone when the tax bill arrives.
The market wants Romney to be elected for many reasons, not least is the heavy regulatory blanket he has thrown over US Business with the radical EPA rules, etc.
I appreciate all the replies and thoughts. Maybe its been pure luck for me so far, but Ive actually done pretty well in 2012 with my own stuff. 100% right and accurate? Nope. But have made a very respectable return on my initial investment.
I am not greedy by nature, so when my pick is down 5% I cut losses. When my pick is up 10% - 12% I take my profit. I am very disciplined about it - and unemotional truth be told.
Ive also gotten pretty good returns on 4 IPO's.
Im not day trading (buying/selling the same day if thats the definition).
Im becoming increasingly intrigued by dividend capture techniques. Ive been successful 2x on this (profit). Broke even 1x.
I totally get the opinions of not doing it yourself, etc...and respect that. I took a very small % of my total portfolio to start out with. I have no intention of taking anything else from my core and long term holdings. We shall see what happens over time. I do know I spend a fair amount of time researching and planning, and maybe that will turn out to be too much....
Back to the dividend thing, Ive thought about putting the money into a great dividend stock and doing the DRIP thing, just let it sit there and accumulate - and check back in 20 years!
CNBC this morning reported that over the last 10 years investors who were mostly out in cash did better than the "fully invested." So with some study, it is better to pick your opportunities and then ride the winners up-- then sell. In general buying stocks and staying with them because they pay dividends has been a sucker bet, a big loser. Instead of selling before big events that would inevitably take the entire market down, dividend stock owners hang in there-- and lose more in a few days than several years of dividends.
But you can make money by simply reading WSJ or your newspaper financial pages-- and jumping aboard certain publicly popular winners like Apple. Set in a "following stop" that takes you out when it stops rising. Grab your profits and wait for another one.
As Buddha alluded to, the markets are rigged and its a closed game. The only way to profit is through inside information. Dating a bond manager, you are probably getting inside. Information. Now managing bonds is quite difficult. Akin the herding cats. Now the el primo dating partner would be a senior-level principal in a heavy weight investment banking firm.
I know or have had dealings with a fair number of investment bankers. Yes there are IPO-s and the like that can generate above market returns. It's a different situation than a standard traded equity, issue pricing is typically at a discount to value. Most of the time investment banking firms won't take it on otherwise. But you don't have to date someone to benefit from that.
However, with bonds, bond desks are able create spreads for themselves that don't get disclosed, simply through warehousing the bonds. Purchasers only need know things like yield, principal and maturity. If a bond manager is dating someone there aren't really inside information constraints to get in the way. And it's this vantage point above the market fog that can make these people a career of steady, nice winnings. They may not be billionaires but they don't have 10-15 year careers of 75 hour weeks either. Most of them have normal lives in fact a number of them figure out how to get by on 25-30 hours a week.
I wouldn't want someone who's around all the time. She should be out making rain for part of it but able to take trips, goof around, etc.
I do. A lot of them. The market isn't completely efficient due to human behavior (fear and greed) and there are opportunities to make money. However, most people don't have the discipline and skills necessary to do so.
Do we have the Stats in reference to "A lot" ?... almost like saying "A lot of people made money in casino..." I worked for 2 summers in Reno and I could estimate how much casinos have to make a day just to break even...
Do we have the Stats in reference to "A lot" ?... almost like saying "A lot of people made money in casino..." I worked for 2 summers in Reno and I could estimate how much casinos have to make a day just to break even...
In the late 90's everyone thought they were a pro at investing in the stock market. Internet stocks took off and anyone who opened an Ameritrade account seemed to be making money. Amazon was the company that started everything. Ebay and Priceline soon followed and then, suddenly, everyone who was day trading lost everthing in the beginning of 2000.
There is no such thing as riding a stock upward and selling it at the top. Only someone looking in hindsight could say such a thing. Larry, no offense, is obviously very new to this and doesn't know what he's talking about.
Nobody makes money long term in day trading. It is impossible. I do not know one person who has made a living in day trading.
If someone actually had a skill at day trading, then obviously that is the only thing they would do because anything else would pale in comparison to the amount of money they could make if they actually had some kind of talent or advantage to day trade successfully.
No, the truth is that there are no long term successful day traders. Look at Jim Cramer...this guy has been in the business a long time and has done extremely well for himself. However, he's wrong more than he is right and he needs a show because of it. Does anyone actually believe that Jim Cramer cares about your portfolio? He has a TV show to make money. That's it.
Nobody makes money long term in day trading. It is impossible. I do not know one person who has made a living in day trading.
If someone actually had a skill at day trading, then obviously that is the only thing they would do because anything else would pale in comparison to the amount of money they could make if they actually had some kind of talent or advantage to day trade successfully.
No, the truth is that there are no long term successful day traders. Look at Jim Cramer...this guy has been in the business a long time and has done extremely well for himself. However, he's wrong more than he is right and he needs a show because of it. Does anyone actually believe that Jim Cramer cares about your portfolio? He has a TV show to make money. That's it.
Hmmm. How do I put this nicely? Let's try, "you have no f--king idea what you're talking about." You're somehow able to extrapolate that no one can be successful at trading from a sample size of yourself and a few people in your life. Once again, generalities and a propensity to process information in absolutes is your downfall.
First of all, Jim Cramer was never a day trader. He was a money manager. One trades daily/hourly using technical analysis and searches for behavioral patterns in the market. The other invests and seeks value opportunities relative to market pricing over months and years.
Secondly, you don't need to be right 50% of the time to make money in the market. That's where money management, discipline, and control of your emotions come into play. If I am right 40% of the time but make twice as much with my winners than my losers, then I come out ahead. Trading plans, risk/reward profiles, disciplined execution, lack of emotion.
I'm a professional trader who, while doesn't daytrade for my own account (but plans to eventually), has an intimate knowledge of the markets and the opportunities it offers. If the market was completely efficient, then you'd be right. However, it's not. It's comprised of human beings who exhibit recurring destructive emotional habits that can capitalized upon. Remember the dot com bubble? There were people that made millions by shorting the euphoria that led to the bubble. Same with the real estate market, and the same during the panic in March of 2009. All these behaviors print noticeable patterns on a stock chart for trained eyes to exploit.
Read the book Market Wizards. It'll give you an idea of what it takes to be successful in the markets.
Hmmm. How do I put this nicely? Let's try, "you have no f--king idea what you're talking about." You're somehow able to extrapolate that no one can be successful at trading from a sample size of yourself and a few people in your life. Once again, generalities and a propensity to process information in absolutes is your downfall.
First of all, Jim Cramer was never a day trader. He was a money manager. One trades daily/hourly using technical analysis and searches for behavioral patterns in the market. The other invests and seeks value opportunities relative to market pricing over months and years.
Secondly, you don't need to be right 50% of the time to make money in the market. That's where money management, discipline, and control of your emotions come into play. If I am right 40% of the time but make twice as much with my winners than my losers, then I come out ahead. Trading plans, risk/reward profiles, disciplined execution, lack of emotion.
I'm a professional trader who, while doesn't daytrade for my own account (but plans to eventually), has an intimate knowledge of the markets and the opportunities it offers. If the market was completely efficient, then you'd be right. However, it's not. It's comprised of human beings who exhibit recurring destructive emotional habits that can capitalized upon. Remember the dot com bubble? There were people that made millions by shorting the euphoria that led to the bubble. Same with the real estate market, and the same during the panic in March of 2009. All these behaviors print noticeable patterns on a stock chart for trained eyes to exploit.
Read the book Market Wizards. It'll give you an idea of what it takes to be successful in the markets.
Hmmm, I don't know how to say this but "you're full of sh!t". You're a professional trader yet you don't trade for yourself? In the same breath you say it's possible to make money day trading and that there is a system you can use. That's kind of like a chef not eating his own food.
I'll make this easy for you. I have known thousands of people in business in my lifetime. Every single successful person I have met agrees that day trading is for people who would otherwise be playing slot machines at a casino. Why, because they are intelligent to know that there is no way to predict what the market will do. No way.
As far as your human behavior
I know Jim Cramer was never a day trader and I know about his past and how he came up. My point was that even a person like Jim Cramer, who has been very successful, would never day trade and the stocks he picks are successful at most half the time.
Your statements about people shorting stock, real estate, etc. during the dot com bubble and 2009 are proof to me that you are reading a bunch of crap.
Did you know that almost 95% of people lie about their investing habits? Do you know how many people I have talked to that claim they got out of the market in 2008 before it took a dive? When I ask them why and what research they relied on they can never give me an answer. They say things like "I could see the way the market was trending". They are lying because nobody wants to admit to losing money.
The truth is that nobody knows when a bubble is going to burst or what the stock market will do. Many people have shorted stock over the last 3 years and have gotten crushed. The market is not necessarily tied to the economy, an election year, war, politics, etc. The only lever that directly impacts it is the federal funds rate but by that time it's too late for any average person to capitalize on the change.
There are a few people, like Warren Buffet, who capitalized on what happened in 2009 and made a killing. However, only a small portion of that was done by shorting stock or trying to time the market. He simply got in at what he predicted was the bottom and has money to burn.
The human behavior element is only studied after the event takes place. Your example of the dot com bubble is a perfect one. Most analysts believed that the bubble would burst much sooner than it did. Even a novice investor would have seen the prices were ridiculous. Yet, people kept buying.
Back then, I remember speaking to a stock broker, asking him about the price of Priceline at 185 and how could it possibly be worth that when they had no earnings. He said "the old rules of stock valuation don't apply here". That's a stockbroker saying that.
Fact: Nobody knew when that bubble was going to burst. People look back and like to pretend they knew.
Fact: If you ask professional people such as economists, big time stock analysts, etc. they will all tell you that there is no such thing as a pattern in the markets. Ask the Chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Think about what a stupid and irresponsible comment that is. Patterns. You might as well be talking to us about the stars aligning or choosing stocks based on weather patterns.
Are you actually leading us to believe that there are patterns in the stock market. Patterns you can see and predict? Let's not speak in generalities here. Please tell us of these patterns and what pattern we're on right now.
FD, relying on anything Ben Bernanke says is an ultimate path to doom. Dude has been wrong on pretty much everything recently.
There's not much I can tell you at this point. You're so far removed from some of the basic tenants of how markets function that you need to educate yourself through reading rather than listen to my drivel. To answer your question, I don't trade independently yet because one needs at least a seven figure capital reserve to even consider it. At the age of 35, I'm not quite there yet. In case you are looking to learn, I'd suggest the following books to get you started:
In the late 90's everyone thought they were a pro at investing in the stock market. Internet stocks took off and anyone who opened an Ameritrade account seemed to be making money. Amazon was the company that started everything. Ebay and Priceline soon followed and then, suddenly, everyone who was day trading lost everthing in the beginning of 2000.
There is no such thing as riding a stock upward and selling it at the top. Only someone looking in hindsight could say such a thing. Larry, no offense, is obviously very new to this and doesn't know what he's talking about.
Nobody makes money long term in day trading. It is impossible. I do not know one person who has made a living in day trading.
If someone actually had a skill at day trading, then obviously that is the only thing they would do because anything else would pale in comparison to the amount of money they could make if they actually had some kind of talent or advantage to day trade successfully.
No, the truth is that there are no long term successful day traders. Look at Jim Cramer...this guy has been in the business a long time and has done extremely well for himself. However, he's wrong more than he is right and he needs a show because of it. Does anyone actually believe that Jim Cramer cares about your portfolio? He has a TV show to make money. That's it.
I do not recommend "day trading." I "buy and ride," using modern tools such as the "following stop." I had $200k on Apple from $580 to $640. It automatically sold me out at $638 when AAPL started going back down. Duh. You can't lose unless the stock you pick starts going down when you buy it.
Just don't get greedy and you'll be OK. But there was no safer bet than Apple at $580 with a following stop in place. That is not gambling at all! Banks are not as safe!
FD, relying on anything Ben Bernanke says is an ultimate path to doom. Dude has been wrong on pretty much everything recently.
There's not much I can tell you at this point. You're so far removed from some of the basic tenants of how markets function that you need to educate yourself through reading rather than listen to my drivel. Plus, I doubt you're actually looking to learn.
To answer your question, I don't trade independently yet because one needs at least a seven figure capital reserve to even consider it. At the age of 35, I'm not quite there yet.
In case you are looking to learn, I'd suggest the following books to get you started:
Also check out trading blogs like slopeofhope.com where professional traders share their war stories and trading ideas.
At the end of the day, successful trading is about discipline. If you don't have it, you can't be successful.
Markets can definitely be timed. You can't be right all the time but you can be right enough. This includes real estate, equities, bonds, commodities and most everything else. You have to be really selective, accept not all bets pay off and realize it's easier to know above and below the line values but not when they'll correct so investing needs to provide for that. Larry's options are dumb but an early move with liquidity and patience can be prudent.
I've done it successfully for a long time as have others I've known. The most recent example is oil, then there was gold, real estate. However, markets can go long periods of time without presenting good timing opportunities. Certain forms of commercial RE are promising now but equities and commodities are waiting on the recovery at pretty healthy values. In the not too distant future interest rates will go up creating opportunities i.e. RE and financial instruments.
Oh, and why would you listen to the Fed Chairman when their job is to fake the markets left and go right? It's one of the most effective tools they have. If the market anticipates their moves they are less effective if at all.
Be OUT when the EU countries implode. and be OUT well before the giant tax increases that Obama has set to happen in January go into effect. They might be cancelled during the "lame duck" session after the elections even if Romney wins-- but angry democrat losers in the Senate might not allow the cancellations to pass... and if those taxes going into effect, watch for a 50% drop in the stock market!!!! Be out in cash.
Be OUT when the EU countries implode. and be OUT well before the giant tax increases that Obama has set to happen in January go into effect. They might be cancelled during the "lame duck" session after the elections even if Romney wins-- but angry democrat losers in the Senate might not allow the cancellations to pass... and if those taxes going into effect, watch for a 50% drop in the stock market!!!! Be out in cash.
Larry
So retarded. I am completely uninvolved in politics, but you are a retard...
You have no knowledge of how the stock market is, currently, a corrupt game and manipulated by the elite; you are such a stupid puppet.
You are the kind of old man that falls for the Nigerian scams...
Stupid old man.
No disrespect intended to the extremely intelligent older men that post here; you know who you are.
Couple months ago I made an appointment to talk to a Fidelity account executive (if a customer has more than $500K in the account then he/she could get this service for free from Fidelity). He's been working for Fidelity 10+ yrs... as we talked about managing $$$$$ for retirement, I began to realize that I know as much if not more than him, I started to challenge some of his suggestions ... finally he realized that I know a lot about stocks, bonds, mutual funds, annuity etc... I never heard from him since.
So, I take advises from CFA, CPA, Financial adviser etc... with a gain of salt
Couple months ago I made an appointment to talk to a Fidelity account executive (if a customer has more than $500K in the account then he/she could get this service for free from Fidelity). He's been working for Fidelity 10+ yrs... as we talked about managing $$$$$ for retirement, I began to realize that I know as much if not more than him, I started to challenge some of his suggestions ... finally he realized that I know a lot about stocks, bonds, mutual funds, annuity etc... I never heard from him since.
So, I take advises from CFA, CPA, Financial adviser etc... with a gain of salt
I'll let the fact that you're comparing a Fidelity account executive to a CFA speak for itself.
I'll let the fact that you're comparing a Fidelity account executive to a CFA speak for itself.
Sounds like PK knows what he's talking about and I've had a similar experience in talking to one of those Fidelity reps. The only thing they are concerned with is getting all of your 401Ks rolled over into a Fidelity account. I would never get financial advice from one of them, or from anyone for that matter. Why would I take advice from someone else on how to invest my money? I would think anyone giving me advice would have some self interest in the matter.
You're comparing a de facto salesperson from a brokerage company to an unbiased, well-educated investment professional who's incentivized to help you work towards your long term financial goals. If you don't know how laughable that is, then I can't help you.
Sounds like PK knows what he's talking about and I've had a similar experience in talking to one of those Fidelity reps. The only thing they are concerned with is getting all of your 401Ks rolled over into a Fidelity account. I would never get financial advice from one of them, or from anyone for that matter. Why would I take advice from someone else on how to invest my money? I would think anyone giving me advice would have some self interest in the matter.
We have most of our liquid cash at Morgan Stanley in Rancho Santa Fe. Our guy has returned 13% profit in the last 12 months.
I buy and sell stocks with a tiny fraction of our funds, and I admit I have NOT done as well as MSDW.
I agree with one of the gurus on CNBC (not Kramer), (the guy with the goatee and ponytail) who said the statistics show that over the last 10 years the S&P average did significantly better than the average individual investor managing his own portfolio--- IF he was "fully invested." However investors who were OUT in cash at least 50% of the time beat the S&P. They (I) just wait for opportunities like AAPL when it was hot. They ride it up and avoid loss with a following stop, etc.
Buying and holding stocks that pay dividends has been a huge sucker bet. Investors hold stocks for the 5% dividends and often lose more than a YEAR's worth of dividends in a single big drop (such as is coming when our congress is unable to resolve the deficit spending, the student loan time bomb, and reduce entitlements. They rationalize that it always comes back, but those who lost big in 2008 are still losers.
So I am mostly out in cash. Watching and waiting. Not sure what our MSDW broker is doing, but he is doing something right!
We have most of our liquid cash at Morgan Stanley in Rancho Santa Fe. Our guy has returned 13% profit in the last 12 months.
I buy and sell stocks with a tiny fraction of our funds, and I admit I have NOT done as well as MSDW.
I agree with one of the gurus on CNBC (not Kramer), (the guy with the goatee and ponytail) who said the statistics show that over the last 10 years the S&P average did significantly better than the average individual investor managing his own portfolio--- IF he was "fully invested." However investors who were OUT in cash at least 50% of the time beat the S&P. They (I) just wait for opportunities like AAPL when it was hot. They ride it up and avoid loss with a following stop, etc.
Buying and holding stocks that pay dividends has been a huge sucker bet. Investors hold stocks for the 5% dividends and often lose more than a YEAR's worth of dividends in a single big drop (such as is coming when our congress is unable to resolve the deficit spending, the student loan time bomb, and reduce entitlements. They rationalize that it always comes back, but those who lost big in 2008 are still losers.
So I am mostly out in cash. Watching and waiting. Not sure what our MSDW broker is doing, but he is doing something right!
Larry
I think you meant a 13% return, not profit. Also, 13% in the last 12 months is fairly poor considering the fact that the S&P 500 has risen by 23% over the last 8 months.
I think you meant a 13% return, not profit. Also, 13% in the last 12 months is fairly poor considering the fact that the S&P 500 has risen by 23% over the last 8 months.
The SPX is down 0.67% (not including dividends) over the last twelve months.
Yeah. Liary's comment was that his advisor has earned him 13% over the last 12 months. You said that wasn't good even though the SPX has earned negative 0.67%. A 13.67% positive spread is good by me.
The SPX is down 0.67% (not including dividends) over the last twelve months.
MOST people trading their own account and "fully invested," i.e. with all their money in solid blue chip public stocks, Coke, etc. LOST MONEY during the last 12 months. In contrast our account at MSDW made money. It is usually about half cash, out and looking for opportunities. They realized big returns from "in house" funds that the public cannot invest in.
I know very smart people who have taken courses and studied this extensively-- and finally decided to just turn their portfolio over to the pros, pay the 1.5% and take the 12% return. This is Rancho Santa Fe. Our MSDW broker said, "I have multi-million dollar clients. They can get in on very lucrative deals that have HUGE minimums. Often I can include your little investment along with them....
MOST people trading their own account and "fully invested," i.e. with all their money in solid blue chip public stocks, Coke, etc. LOST MONEY during the last 12 months. In contrast our account at MSDW made money. It is usually about half cash, out and looking for opportunities. They realized big returns from "in house" funds that the public cannot invest in.
I know very smart people who have taken courses and studied this extensively-- and finally decided to just turn their portfolio over to the pros, pay the 1.5% and take the 12% return. This is Rancho Santa Fe. Our MSDW broker said, "I have multi-million dollar clients. They can get in on very lucrative deals that have HUGE minimums. Often I can include your little investment along with them....
Larry
Ha lol! You are such a retard. Post a link to this so called 12% return you jackass!
Sure it has happened but not in your circle retard.
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Originally Posted by Lord Helmet
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