I found it! This is the secret to the golf swing

[Larryrsf]

http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf.../0/VLc6E7-BhQ8

This drill with the SwingSetter started it. A teaching pro on another Golf discussion group complimented me on this smooth action and wondered whether I could do that with a normal club. My pro also said it looks good-- but was skeptical whether I can do it with a real club while hitting balls. Most amateurs swing differently with a ball down.

So today I went to the range and hit a small bucket from the range mat with 6i. I experimented by setting up, then placing the club over the ball several feet along the swing path, then smoothly rocking into my backswing. Wow! I have NEVER, NEVER, hit golf balls so crisply and consistently. The whole bucket went like that! I simply COULD NOT MISS! I could hit a target at 160 yards, but I could also fly that by swinging just a little harder. I could hit draws by simply looking at the inside of the ball. I could hit nice fades by looking at the outside. NO other changes, just looking there made it happen! I was using the good fundamentals from recent lessons, getting my grip and stance exactly right before every swing--but I still always mishit a few, made some poor swings, decelerated, failed to get off my back foot, etc. Not this time!!!.

I can't take credit for this, of course. That older teaching pro on the Golf Discussion forum identified my much smoother and fundamentally better action with the SwingSetter as we see in the video. But of course that training club has no clubhead so I naturally swung OVER the target "ball" to start my backswing.

I can remember doing that months ago when I was making the demo video clips for the PivotfforPower. Since I was not hitting balls, I could start every swing by swinging the club OVER the ball along the target line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjEJNzxTXfA

Notice the smooth natural transition weight shift--the POST on my front leg before my shoulders come around--which accelerates the clubhead. But I have only occasionally been able to hit balls like that from a stationary setup with a real golf club and a golf ball down--and most amateurs (99% according to TPI) can't do it either.

Leadbetter strongly suggests this method to start our swing when we play! In his book "Fundamentals of Hogan" in the backswing section he says he has "ALL" his students at all levels do that--even touring pros!! I can remember seeing Davis Love III do that while warming up and possibly just before teeing off in tournaments.

I'm SOLD! From now one I will hit every ball with every club on range or course by first swinging the clubhead up over the ball and then starting my backswing.

BTW, I discovered that it is NOT necessary to place the clubhead behind the ball in order to return it to the ball accurately. If I can bring it back accurately, anyone can do it without setting the clubhead behind the ball.

I keep my backswing shorter automatically, likely because my hips have already started forward AS I finish the backswing--which is the essence of the transistion weight shift. My hips probably stop me from taking the club too high and getting the club off plane. Regardless, this works consistently despite minor errors because accelerating through is about 50 times more important than anything else!

Try it

Larry

[Not a hacker]

So do you propose this for a driver Larry, where the ball is already teed high off the ground.

I have actually heard fat Jack say that he hovers the club off the ground to remove tension from the start of the backswing. But how many majors has he won lately?

[noshuz]

I found it. Now my finger stinks......

[Larryrsf]

So do you propose this for a driver Larry, where the ball is already teed high off the ground.

I have actually heard fat Jack say that he hovers the club off the ground to remove tension from the start of the backswing. But how many majors has he won lately?

Just try it. Swing the driver head ahead of the ball a few feet, then back above the ball and then hit the ball. You will be amazed that you can probably swing it back waist high and hit the ball flush. The whole deal is the natural rocking motion-- no jerk, almost no tension. Just take it back then start forward naturally-- which will be your lower body leading. You will knock it long and far with NO arm and hand action.

Larry

[lorenzoinoc]

Larry, I watched the video again and again. I just can't get enough of watching you swing a training aid.

By the way, I'm kind of concerned. Is that beep we hear in the video coming from your pacemaker? You'd better get the battery changed in that thing ASAP. We don't want you to become LarryRIP.

[alangbaker]

http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf.../0/VLc6E7-BhQ8

This drill with the SwingSetter started it. A teaching pro on another Golf discussion group complimented me on this smooth action and wondered whether I could do that with a normal club. My pro also said it looks good-- but was skeptical whether I can do it with a real club while hitting balls. Most amateurs swing differently with a ball down.

So today I went to the range and hit a small bucket from the range mat with 6i. I experimented by setting up, then placing the club over the ball several feet along the swing path, then smoothly rocking into my backswing. Wow! I have NEVER, NEVER, hit golf balls so crisply and consistently. The whole bucket went like that! I simply COULD NOT MISS! I could hit a target at 160 yards, but I could also fly that by swinging just a little harder. I could hit draws by simply looking at the inside of the ball. I could hit nice fades by looking at the outside. NO other changes, just looking there made it happen! I was using the good fundamentals from recent lessons, getting my grip and stance exactly right before every swing--but I still always mishit a few, made some poor swings, decelerated, failed to get off my back foot, etc. Not this time!!!.

I can't take credit for this, of course. That older teaching pro on the Golf Discussion forum identified my much smoother and fundamentally better action with the SwingSetter as we see in the video. But of course that training club has no clubhead so I naturally swung OVER the target "ball" to start my backswing.

I can remember doing that months ago when I was making the demo video clips for the PivotfforPower. Since I was not hitting balls, I could start every swing by swinging the club OVER the ball along the target line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjEJNzxTXfA

Notice the smooth natural transition weight shift--the POST on my front leg before my shoulders come around--which accelerates the clubhead. But I have only occasionally been able to hit balls like that from a stationary setup with a real golf club and a golf ball down--and most amateurs (99% according to TPI) can't do it either.

Leadbetter strongly suggests this method to start our swing when we play! In his book "Fundamentals of Hogan" in the backswing section he says he has "ALL" his students at all levels do that--even touring pros!! I can remember seeing Davis Love III do that while warming up and possibly just before teeing off in tournaments.

I'm SOLD! From now one I will hit every ball with every club on range or course by first swinging the clubhead up over the ball and then starting my backswing.

BTW, I discovered that it is NOT necessary to place the clubhead behind the ball in order to return it to the ball accurately. If I can bring it back accurately, anyone can do it without setting the clubhead behind the ball.

I keep my backswing shorter automatically, likely because my hips have already started forward AS I finish the backswing--which is the essence of the transistion weight shift. My hips probably stop me from taking the club too high and getting the club off plane. Regardless, this works consistently despite minor errors because accelerating through is about 50 times more important than anything else!

So this is really "IT" this time, is it?

Not practicing with a one iron?

Not the pump and go drill?

Not taking the club back so that it is vertical and points at your toes?

This time... ...you're sure, right?

This time, you'll hit "all the fairways", right?

Well tell the world, Larry... ...except those boors on GolfRewound...

...who banned you.

[alangbaker]

Just try it. Swing the driver head ahead of the ball a few feet, then back above the ball and then hit the ball. You will be amazed that you can probably swing it back waist high and hit the ball flush. The whole deal is the natural rocking motion-- no jerk, almost no tension. Just take it back then start forward naturally-- which will be your lower body leading. You will knock it long and far with NO arm and hand action.

I know this will come as a great shock to you, Larry, but quite a few of us don't have a problem starting back smoothly from a stopped position.

If this works for you: great. Just don't advertise it (as you always do) as the be all, end all "secret" to solve everyone's golf woes.

[pingman360]

I know this will come as a great shock to you, Larry, but quite a few of us don't have a problem starting back smoothly from a stopped position.

If this works for you: great. Just don't advertise it (as you always do) as the be all, end all "secret" to solve everyone's golf woes.

+1 for me on that... all this personal discovery while it may work for you does not mean that it is THE WAY that everyone should hit the ball... there are MILLIONS of ways to effectively hit the ball, and while all great ball-strikers do have some things in common all their swings have differences in them...

as i'm sure everyone knows i teach SnT... however it is not the only way to hit a ball, and it is not the only way i teach either, and while you won't see me teaching people to shift weight to the right side i also don't teach everyone the same spine tilts that SnT prescribe... there are some things that are universal with all great ball-strikers, they did not "find the secret" every week...

here i'll be more blunt for you larry... THERE IS NO SECRET... quit looking for it because there isn't something that you will find that will cure it all and make you a world-beater all of a sudden... stop investing in gimmicks and you may actually get better...

[Mizuno>Ping]

+1 for me on that... all this personal discovery while it may work for you does not mean that it is THE WAY that everyone should hit the ball... there are MILLIONS of ways to effectively hit the ball, and while all great ball-strikers do have some things in common all their swings have differences in them...

as i'm sure everyone knows i teach SnT... however it is not the only way to hit a ball, and it is not the only way i teach either, and while you won't see me teaching people to shift weight to the right side i also don't teach everyone the same spine tilts that SnT prescribe... there are some things that are universal with all great ball-strikers, they did not "find the secret" every week...

here i'll be more blunt for you larry... THERE IS NO SECRET... quit looking for it because there isn't something that you will find that will cure it all and make you a world-beater all of a sudden... stop investing in gimmicks and you may actually get better...

Well put, Ping.

[Kiwi Player]

That's awesome Larry, sounds like you have got the golf swing down pat. You'll be hitting 99.9% of fairways and GIR in no time. When do you think you will get your handicap down to scratch?

BTW I am really keen to try that Swing Setter but before I do I am still trying to master the slow motion swing drill. There's just a couple of minor tweaks I need to make and I think it will be perfect. I've been doing a lot of mirror work but to put the finishing touches on the weight transition to my left foot I need to work off a good video example. Could you please help a fellow golfer out by reposting your slow motion swing video?

Much appreciated.

Kiwi

[groundhogday]

Larry you must like having you ass tapped on this site buddy. I suggest you committe a crime, meet a nice man named Bubba in jail and change your name to mary.
GHD

[spanqdoggie]

Larry you must like having you ass tapped on this site buddy. I suggest you committe a crime, meet a nice man named Bubba in jail and change your name to mary.
GHD

You are a retard. And you say you are a cop? Anyways, maybe it is the dildo in your mouth that makes you sound like a retard... walking around naked in your house with a dildo in your mouth; not cool, dude. Trying to type with the dildo hanging out, poking keys on the keyboard by accident... not cool.

I doubt you are a cop as I come from a family of San Francisco police officers, and I can smell a nerd out quick style; sheesh... one example: my grandfather 'was' an undercover narc for 25 years before becoming Captain in a San Francisco station... My grandfather has hundreds of photos in his office of everybody he busted.

You have nothing.

Have you ever had a gun at your head while having to take cocaine, so you don't get killed, working undercover? Well, you are not going to be invited over for a family dinner to hear the story, so kiss my ass.

The job sucks, which is why I decided not to get a free pass into the S.F.P.D. Who wants to deal with retards full time as a police officer? No thanks. I am glad I didn't jump on that bandwagon like your dumb ass wishes he could; no you are not a cop... I know, trust me.

You are a d!ckhead, and Larry is my friend.

Larry, you look great, and I wish you well. Thank you for the video and suggestions.

Kiss my ass hog.

[groundhogday]

Cum dog I believe you buddy, I believe your tapping Larry's ass. Do me a favor change your name to Bubba or do you like mary.
Your dad was he selling your ass for crack or did you take to it naturally.

San Francisco is a **** town anyway.

GHD

[spanqdoggie]

Cum dog I believe you buddy, I believe your tapping Larry's ass. Do me a favor change your name to Bubba or do you like mary.
Your dad was he selling your ass for crack or did you take to it naturally.

San Francisco is a **** town anyway.

GHD

Okay, I think I definitely smoked out a teenager lying here on GR. I can smell you retards a mile away.

Ask Dorkman, kid. If San Francisco sucks so much to live, where do YOU live in, jackass?

... yeah, I don't expect a response; who wants to admit they live in the corner of Texarkana.

Thanks for cutting and pasting your response to Larry and pretending it is a new response to mine; I guess it must be tough when you peck at a keyboard with a dildo in your mouth at 7 words a minute.

I told you to remove the dildo from your mouth; it is screwing up your typing when the dildo hits the keyboard... Use your HANDS to type!

Just a friendly word of fatherly advice.

Think of me as your father, hog.

Is this you in the picture below? This is how I picture your dumb ass... (ditch the dildo)... Forget "Where's Waldo." I am looking at this picture of you and thinking, "Where's dildo."

[groundhogday]

Cum dog at least i know where you live



GHD

[spanqdoggie]

Cum dog at least i know where you live



GHD

Baby, I am YOUR cum dog!

Honey, send me a pm! I have lots of dildos, my little love truffle! I will pay all expenses for you to come here to San Francisco. ;)

I cannot wait to meet you!

Your cum dog,

spank

[SoonerBS]

Larry, bring back the Tai Chi golf swing video, please? That was working for me and I am disappointed that I cannot check to make sure I am performing the movements correctly . . . .

[edgey]

Liarry

You are on record as having made the following observation, in writing

"Where is GW Bush when we need him? There were no attacks on America or American airlines during his years"

I can no longer take seriously ANYTHING you say until you explain this.

Edgey

PS Is Alan G correct, have you been banned of golfrewound??

[poe4soul]

Larry, bring back the Tai Chi golf swing video, please? That was working for me and I am disappointed that I cannot check to make sure I am performing the movements correctly . . . .

You practice Tai chi golf also. I was hooked from the first time I saw it. On thing I've discovered, don't know if it's a secrete, but go slow, I mean real slow. Imagine you're a golf sloth, now go half that fast. It has worked wonders for my swing. I now dedicate 20 minutes a day to the tai chi golf and barely get 2 swings done. I have gotten some complaints on the course when I do my tai chi practice swings before address the ball but f them. I'll have to incorporate this new move into the workout. Thanks Larry!

BTW - Larry, please grace us with the video. Please!

[poe4soul]

I don't know about banned but he's been d!ck slapped a few times. It's amazing because he keeps getting up. Then whack! Right up side the head again. I really don't know how he takes it and still keeps his positive attitude. He's a model for all of us.

BTW - Larry, please post the Tai chi video.

[A V Twiss]

Maybe I am not getting this but the video looks like all Larry is doing is rebounding of a large forward press. Given the amount of movement I'm not surprised that the club head would have to be above the ball.

[Kiwi Player]

PS Is Alan G correct, have you been banned of golfrewound??

I went over and had a nosey and man is he suffering a barrage of ad hominen attacks on a forum that normally bans members for such behaviour. His status is shown as 'Out of Bounds' which I guess is like a temporary ban. That explains why he has graced us with his presence.

[Larryrsf]

Larry, I watched the video again and again. I just can't get enough of watching you swing a training aid.

By the way, I'm kind of concerned. Is that beep we hear in the video coming from your pacemaker? You'd better get the battery changed in that thing ASAP. We don't want you to become LarryRIP.

That beep is the PivotforPower on my front shoe, its switch under my heel. Each time my heel comes down, it beeps. The idea is to POST and then strike the ball. "Turn, POST, Swing" to quote Shawn Clement.

Worn on the back foot shoe, the PivotforPower beeps when it "hears" impact AND the back heel is still down. It signals that the golfer struck the ball "late," before moving his weight to his front leg "post." At impact the back shoe should have rolled toward the target as the back knee moved toward the front knee. I always suggest lessons from a good PGA pro.

I posted "I found it" because I discovered I can hit ALL my clubs like I swing that SwingSetter-- by starting my swing with the clubhead a few feet ahead of the ball. I will shoot a video of myself hitting long irons, 3w, and driver.

And BTW, I can hit my old Haig Ultra 2i, tiny forged blade with heavy steel shaft, as well as my Callaway BB OS graphite irons. A swing is a swing and the club simply doesn't matter much. The difference is that the heavy steel shaft cost me 10+ yards distance. One range I use has Mizuno demo clubs-- I will hit them side-by-side with my graphite Callaways and that old Haig Ultra--just to prove that there is NO ADVANTAGE to forged blades or heavy steel stiff shafts.

Larry

[lorenzoinoc]

I went over and had a nosey and man is he suffering a barrage of ad hominen attacks on a forum that normally bans members for such behaviour. His status is shown as 'Out of Bounds' which I guess is like a temporary ban. That explains why he has graced us with his presence.

Those genius sleuths at Golf Rewound sure figured out Larry quickly, didn't they? It only took them, what, 6 months?

[lorenzoinoc]

That beep is the PivotforPower on my front shoe, switch under my heel. When my heel is down hard, it beeps. The idea is to POST and then strike the ball. "Turn, POST, Swing" to quote Shawn Clement.

Larry

I had to ask?

So far it's the stupidest thing I've done in 2010.

[Kiwi Player]

Those genius sleuths at Golf Rewound sure figured out Larry quickly, didn't they? It only took them, what, 6 months?

See my other post. As stated I still can't believe the amount of keystrokes wasted on Larry over there.

[alangbaker]

That beep is the PivotforPower on my front shoe, its switch under my heel. Each time my heel comes down, it beeps. The idea is to POST and then strike the ball. "Turn, POST, Swing" to quote Shawn Clement.

Worn on the back foot shoe, the PivotforPower beeps when it "hears" impact AND the back heel is still down. It signals that the golfer struck the ball "late," before moving his weight to his front leg "post." At impact the back shoe should have rolled toward the target as the back knee moved toward the front knee. I always suggest lessons from a good PGA pro.

And you have previously admitted that it doesn't actually help...

I posted "I found it" because I discovered I can hit ALL my clubs like I swing that SwingSetter-- by starting my swing with the clubhead a few feet ahead of the ball. I will shoot a video of myself hitting long irons, 3w, and driver.

And BTW, I can hit my old Haig Ultra 2i, tiny forged blade with heavy steel shaft, as well as my Callaway BB OS graphite irons. A swing is a swing and the club simply doesn't matter much. The difference is that the heavy steel shaft cost me 10+ yards distance. One range I use has Mizuno demo clubs-- I will hit them side-by-side with my graphite Callaways and that old Haig Ultra--just to prove that there is NO ADVANTAGE to forged blades or heavy steel stiff shafts.

Of course you can, Larry. And you can also (and this is an actual quote, mind):

"my GIR percentage, currently at 93.7%, and also my fairways hit which is at 90.1%."

What I'm wondering is, if you could do that last fall ( which is better than the best on the PGA Tour can do and "[get your] handicap from 7.5 to 4.3."), why do you need to change your technique?

Also, I'm wondering how you claim to have ever had a handicap of 4.3 at all, let alone last fall when you were pretty much unable to break 100?

You wouldn't have been stretching the truth, now would you, Larry?

[poe4soul]

That beep is the PivotforPower on my front shoe, its switch under my heel. Each time my heel comes down, it beeps. The idea is to POST and then strike the ball. "Turn, POST, Swing" to quote Shawn Clement.

Worn on the back foot shoe, the PivotforPower beeps when it "hears" impact AND the back heel is still down. It signals that the golfer struck the ball "late," before moving his weight to his front leg "post." At impact the back shoe should have rolled toward the target as the back knee moved toward the front knee. I always suggest lessons from a good PGA pro.

...

Larry

I wonder what that would sound like on KP's shoe as he laces a 300 yard drive. The PP would be buzzing the whole time....

[edgey]

I went over and had a nosey and man is he suffering a barrage of ad hominen attacks on a forum that normally bans members for such behaviour. His status is shown as 'Out of Bounds' which I guess is like a temporary ban. That explains why he has graced us with his presence.

Shite, i was banned after 5 posts. Liarry is a liar and a fraud.

Carry on

Edgey

[noshuz]

"my GIR percentage, currently at 93.7%, and also my fairways hit which is at 90.1%."

That doesn't count for miniature golf Liaree..........

[pingman360]

i just went back and read a lot of the post Larry has made, and went over to golfrewound and read what he writes, and it truely is sad....

really it's sad on both ends both larry and a lot of others truly lack the understanding of club to path relationship.... as well as an understanding of plane, and other basic essentials to perform a golf swing...

but it's not really the fault of either party, the blame lies in the "golf instructors" that continue to teach nonsense without any real understanding of what they are teaching... it really is sad when you hear some of the lessons given you simply have to shake your head....

[lorenzoinoc]

I wonder what that would sound like on KP's shoe as he laces a 300 yard drive. The PP would be buzzing the whole time....

Particularly if it had an improving your lie alarm.

[Larryrsf]

i just went back and read a lot of the post Larry has made, and went over to golfrewound and read what he writes, and it truely is sad....

really it's sad on both ends both larry and a lot of others truly lack the understanding of club to path relationship.... as well as an understanding of plane, and other basic essentials to perform a golf swing...

but it's not really the fault of either party, the blame lies in the "golf instructors" that continue to teach nonsense without any real understanding of what they are teaching... it really is sad when you hear some of the lessons given you simply have to shake your head....

Yeah! That Leadbetter dude is a phony! His books and the SwingSetter are bogus! So are the two PGA pros I take lessons from here in San Diego. That Mahlberg guy at Stadium Golf probably got kicked off the PGA tour, and Michael Owen at Torrey Pines was probably fired by his PGA touring pro clients. All phonies! Thanks!

Larry

[noshuz]

Yeah! That Leadbetter dude is a phony! His books and the SwingSetter are bogus! So are the two PGA pros I take lessons from here in San Diego. That Mahlberg guy at Stadium Golf probably got kicked off the PGA tour, and Michael Owen at Torrey Pines was probably fired by his PGA touring pro clients. All phonies! Thanks!

Larry

Dang Larree. With a support group like that I'm surprised you still suck??

[alangbaker]

Yeah! That Leadbetter dude is a phony! His books and the SwingSetter are bogus! So are the two PGA pros I take lessons from here in San Diego. That Mahlberg guy at Stadium Golf probably got kicked off the PGA tour, and Michael Owen at Torrey Pines was probably fired by his PGA touring pro clients. All phonies! Thanks!

They're not the ones posting, Larry: you are, and your credibility is seriously in doubt.

Or don't you recall posting this gem, when your handicap was actually 17+:

"My primary goal is improve on my GIR percentage, currently at 93.7%, and also my fairways hit which is at 90.1%. Hitting fairways and greens is the only way to score, that's how I got my handicap from 7.5 to 4.3."

http://www.thecutline.com/forums/sho...1209#post31209

And isn't it interesting how you've suddenly had your handicap page removed from idcreports.com. In fact, two different handicaps for the name "Larry Whitaker" have been removed. You wouldn't have been keeping two different handicaps, would you Larry?

[noshuz]

They're not the ones posting, Larry: you are, and your credibility is seriously in doubt.

Or don't you recall posting this gem, when your handicap was actually 17+:

"My primary goal is improve on my GIR percentage, currently at 93.7%, and also my fairways hit which is at 90.1%. Hitting fairways and greens is the only way to score, that's how I got my handicap from 7.5 to 4.3."

http://www.thecutline.com/forums/sho...1209#post31209

And isn't it interesting how you've suddenly had your handicap page removed from idcreports.com. In fact, two different handicaps for the name "Larry Whitaker" have been removed. You wouldn't have been keeping two different handicaps, would you Larry?

Can you say pathological liar??

[pingman360]

Yeah! That Leadbetter dude is a phony! His books and the SwingSetter are bogus! So are the two PGA pros I take lessons from here in San Diego. That Mahlberg guy at Stadium Golf probably got kicked off the PGA tour, and Michael Owen at Torrey Pines was probably fired by his PGA touring pro clients. All phonies! Thanks!

Larry

fine whatever... just because you teach good players does not mean you know anything... it means some rely on marketing, some their name and others their skill...

why would you take lessons from 2 pro's?? that seems a little counterproductive most have very different ideas on what should happen in a golf swing... as for leadbetter, i don't want to talk him down but i've seen some of the things he has done with players and left shaking my head... here's an interesting fact 60% of tour players have no idea about club to path relationship, and that's probably the most important thing in consistent curvature... jack didn't get it either and he's the best to have ever lived.... so what does that say about the instructors giving them their info?? like i've said before im nobody so maybe i can say things that others who are more important than me can't say, but modern golf instruction is very flawed in a lot of what it teaches as "fundamentals" and "keys to making a proper golf swing"...

you use that swing setter for achieving better lag pressure, but one of the best ways to achieve better lag pressure is the proper utilization of the #3 pp, another would simply be sequencing the accumulators properly... what you post is self discovery stuff, and that stuff generally lasts about a week, then you have to slap the next bandaid on it... you adress the symptoms not the problems and if you are following exactly what your pro's are teaching you... then yes i will go on record in saying that they are flawed...

i read parts of your flatten the shaft thread and you really miss the point... you hit the ball from the inside by having weight forward at impact and proper axis tilts (well there's more than just that but for arguements sake we'll just go simple)... it is not a manipulation and who cares waht the shaft does it will be completely different depending on what somone is trying to do... what is they are trying to zero shift their plane?? or what if they want to go CP... on the later the MAY flatten but it will still be over the backswing plane, and maybe even steeper...

the point is larry it depends on what you want to do... so stop posting these "universals" there are plenty ways to hit the ball well, and while some things should never happen and some things should always happen... you have never posted anything in either of these categories...

[pingman360]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PNAayis190

larry... is this why you feel it is imperative for the shaft to flatten.... well if youre OTT like you are then yes i can understand why an instructor might tell you to drop in back on plane... and while i disagree that it is the best way to accomplish the goals, it can be done that way...

BUT NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO DO THIS... what if someone is underplane on the backswing?? what should they drop the club behind you (to quote you) still?? you see my point, it depends on the indivinual...

[noshuz]

Pingman, I got the Jim Hardy book "The Plane Truth" and in it he mentions that the trouble with todays instruction is that they're teaching both one and two plane techniques in the same swing only to lead to more trouble down the road. Do you agree?

[poe4soul]

And this is how many thousand of words were posted on Golfrewound. People, honestly, and constructively trying to help larry by saying stuff like what you just posted P'man. Will he yeild? No. Will he even give a shoulder shrug and say "Whatever" in his best Valley Girl imitation and move on? No! He'll reply with some dumb arse quote from SLAP or Swing the Club Head or his favorite Hogan's Five Lessons. If that doesn't work he'll reply about his many lessons and blah, blah, blah, blah... He's serious 'bout this stuff! (I often wonder if the veins in his neck and head are popping when he posts some of his replies.)

This is the first time he's admitted to having two instructors that I'm aware of. That's just crazy.

Larry,
Do both instructor's know that you are two timing them? Pretty hard to teach a swing when you switch from one methodology to another. Plus read those outdated books. Then throw in a Pivot for Power! a swing setter, tia chi video, flatten the shaft, swing post chicken wing, or whatever else you've been practicing. No wonder your hating golf.

Be the ball Larry, BE THE BALL!

[lorenzoinoc]

Seems pretty clear to me, Poe.

You've got your shy, quiet village idiots. And then you've got your egotistical, narcisstic village idiots. The latter doesn't care if they look stupid as long as they get attention.

Larry's the internet equivalent of the fool in the multicolored wig that used to invade sports telecasts.

[alangbaker]

Seems pretty clear to me, Poe.

You've got your shy, quiet village idiots. And then you've got your egotistical, narcisstic village idiots. The latter doesn't care if they look stupid as long as they get attention.

Larry's the internet equivalent of the fool in the multicolored wig that used to invade sports telecasts.

Pretty much.

Larry is so insecure that he has to insist on how special he is. At first, he could brag about how quickly he was learning the game, but as time went on, it became more and more obvious to everyone that he was simply lying.

So he's switched to bragging about how much more *dedicated* to improvement he is than us poor peons.

[SoonerBS]

Larry, you, and people like you, are the reason I can't get good programming on the Golf Channel because infomercials are still thriving . . . . . . .

[pingman360]

Pingman, I got the Jim Hardy book "The Plane Truth" and in it he mentions that the trouble with todays instruction is that they're teaching both one and two plane techniques in the same swing only to lead to more trouble down the road. Do you agree?

i am not well versed in Hardy's book i've skimmed parts of it and have talked to some people about it... it has it's roots in TGM and MORAD from what i'm told and this is my take on what little i am informed about... and i may not be right on some of the stuff i say so please correct me if i am incorrect...

Hardy gets some stuff right and some stuff not so much... while he is not neccessarily incorrect i have heard that the information is less tecchnical and more feel based whereas other sources will be more spot on in there numbers.... hard is more about approximations...

i think the biggest flaw is in the name of a OPS because really there is no such thing a a one plane swing... a true one plane swing would be EXTREMELY vertacle to the point where the clubhead is above the ball at p4 (top of BS) if we were looking at the swing from the DTL position... this means that the swing would be fairly steep and probably we wouldnt be able to hit the ball 10yds... what Hardy calls a OPS is really from my understanding is a swing that is a zero shift swing on the elbow plane... meaning backswing is on the elbow plane as is the DS and follow through... he prefers the elbow plane but i assume would also agree that as long as there is zero shift there isn't a problem, so an example of that would be like Brian Gay he swings up the TSP (Turning Shoulder Plane) and stays on that plane to his finish.... so i think there are a few misconceptions about what he actually means... he would probably teach similar to SnT but without an emphasis on weight being 60-40 left at the top, or spine tilts... he would probably still like the shoulders to turnn steeper but would prob not mention how the spine tilts effect this motion...

two plane swing is sometihng i'm so not good at or extremely familar with.... but i would say that it just talks about plane swifts and would want hips shoulders and everything at 0* at impact to facilitate this action... i will wrap this up a bit later as i have to leave now... but here is my short answer to the question (and i have a point to all my descriptions which later i will tie together)...

my take on what he says is yes... most people instructors or not take information and just throw it into there teachings and own swings without looking at it and examining if it would work and why it would work... this all goes back to the problem of not knowing how the clubface to path relationship works... simple as that...

[Kiwi Player]

This is the first time he's admitted to having two instructors that I'm aware of. That's just crazy.

Larry,
Do both instructor's know that you are two timing them? Pretty hard to teach a swing when you switch from one methodology to another.

If Larry is as well off as he claims 'us Rancho Santa Fe types' are and the instructors are really charging up to $200 per hour (which I think I read him state somewhere) then neither of them probably gives a shite about Larry's golf swing. They're both too busy laughing all the way the bank.

[Larryrsf]

[QUOTE=.[/QUOTE]

I expect that New Zealand and Australia like the rest of the world is laughing AT Obama--and wishing America had GW Bush back. He was squeaky clean, no hint of scandal, nobody took a dime, no Czars, etc. He just did his job and protected his country. Al Queda, et. al. stayed away because they knew he would go after them and kill them, no mercy.

He did president like he did golf and like I do golf-- just keep it simple and do your job. He didn't much care what others think-- exactly like I don't much care what any of you think.

Larry

[alangbaker]

I expect that New Zealand and Australia like the rest of the world is laughing AT Obama--and wishing America had GW Bush back. He was squeaky clean, no hint of scandal, nobody took a dime, no Czars, etc. He just did his job and protected his country. Al Queda, et. al. stayed away because they knew he would go after them and kill them, no mercy.

He did president like he did golf and like I do golf-- just keep it simple and do your job. He didn't much care what others think-- exactly like I don't much care what any of you think.

I don't have to suspect about one thing, Larry: Pretty much everywhere you spout your "secrets" everyone ends up laughing at YOU.

[mentaloaf]

Maybe I am not getting this but the video looks like all Larry is doing is rebounding of a large forward press. Given the amount of movement I'm not surprised that the club head would have to be above the ball.

Nice avatar...are those nose balls on that thing?

[Mizuno>Ping]

That beep is the PivotforPower on my front shoe, its switch under my heel. Each time my heel comes down, it beeps. The idea is to POST and then strike the ball. "Turn, POST, Swing" to quote Shawn Clement.

Worn on the back foot shoe, the PivotforPower beeps when it "hears" impact AND the back heel is still down. It signals that the golfer struck the ball "late," before moving his weight to his front leg "post." At impact the back shoe should have rolled toward the target as the back knee moved toward the front knee. I always suggest lessons from a good PGA pro.

I posted "I found it" because I discovered I can hit ALL my clubs like I swing that SwingSetter-- by starting my swing with the clubhead a few feet ahead of the ball. I will shoot a video of myself hitting long irons, 3w, and driver.

And BTW, I can hit my old Haig Ultra 2i, tiny forged blade with heavy steel shaft, as well as my Callaway BB OS graphite irons. A swing is a swing and the club simply doesn't matter much. The difference is that the heavy steel shaft cost me 10+ yards distance. One range I use has Mizuno demo clubs-- I will hit them side-by-side with my graphite Callaways and that old Haig Ultra--just to prove that there is NO ADVANTAGE to forged blades or heavy steel stiff shafts.

Larry

Only amateurs aim and attempt to hit dead straight.

[spanqdoggie]

Larry, you are a great, nice guy, and I love your videos!

Thank you for helping me; I will purchase that product, and I WILL break 90. I always love a friendly tip/advice.

Take care my friend.

Kindest regards,

spank

[The Purist]

Larry, you are a great, nice guy, and I love your videos!

Thank you for helping me; I will purchase that product, and I WILL break 90. I always love a friendly tip/advice.

Take care my friend.

Kindest regards,

spank

I am with spanqdoggie on this one. I think we are lucky to have Larry posting swing advice. Most of the good players on this site are too lazy to put together anything that might help a fellow a golfer. All these haters are probably just jealous.

Keep up the good work Larry.

[Kiwi Player]

I expect that New Zealand and Australia like the rest of the world is laughing AT Obama--and wishing America had GW Bush back. He was squeaky clean, no hint of scandal, nobody took a dime, no Czars, etc. He just did his job and protected his country. Al Queda, et. al. stayed away because they knew he would go after them and kill them, no mercy.

He did president like he did golf and like I do golf-- just keep it simple and do your job. He didn't much care what others think-- exactly like I don't much care what any of you think.

Larry

Nice way to change the subject Larry. In fact EVERYONE in Australia & New Zealand and probably the rest of the world considered Dubbya to be a bumbling fool.

[noshuz]

Nice way to change the subject Larry. In fact EVERYONE in Australia & New Zealand and probably the rest of the world considered Dubbya to be a bumbling fool.

I alwayz thot hee wer pritee smort.....

[edgey]

I expect that New Zealand and Australia like the rest of the world is laughing AT Obama--and wishing America had GW Bush back. He was squeaky clean, no hint of scandal, nobody took a dime, no Czars, etc. He just did his job and protected his country. Al Queda, et. al. stayed away because they knew he would go after them and kill them, no mercy.
He did president like he did golf and like I do golf-- just keep it simple and do your job. He didn't much care what others think-- exactly like I don't much care what any of you think.

Larry

Other than on 09/11 when the single largest terrorist atrocity to befall your great nation occured.

How hard must it be for you to accept this simple fact Liarry, More people died from terrorist attacks in the USA under G W Bush's Presidency than any other in history.

Care to comment Liarry?

Edgey

[A V Twiss]

Nice avatar...are those nose balls on that thing?

No its a recent self portrait. I've not been wll lately

[famousdavis]

http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf.../0/VLc6E7-BhQ8

This drill with the SwingSetter started it. A teaching pro on another Golf discussion group complimented me on this smooth action and wondered whether I could do that with a normal club. My pro also said it looks good-- but was skeptical whether I can do it with a real club while hitting balls. Most amateurs swing differently with a ball down.

So today I went to the range and hit a small bucket from the range mat with 6i. I experimented by setting up, then placing the club over the ball several feet along the swing path, then smoothly rocking into my backswing. Wow! I have NEVER, NEVER, hit golf balls so crisply and consistently. The whole bucket went like that! I simply COULD NOT MISS! I could hit a target at 160 yards, but I could also fly that by swinging just a little harder. I could hit draws by simply looking at the inside of the ball. I could hit nice fades by looking at the outside. NO other changes, just looking there made it happen! I was using the good fundamentals from recent lessons, getting my grip and stance exactly right before every swing--but I still always mishit a few, made some poor swings, decelerated, failed to get off my back foot, etc. Not this time!!!.

I can't take credit for this, of course. That older teaching pro on the Golf Discussion forum identified my much smoother and fundamentally better action with the SwingSetter as we see in the video. But of course that training club has no clubhead so I naturally swung OVER the target "ball" to start my backswing.

I can remember doing that months ago when I was making the demo video clips for the PivotfforPower. Since I was not hitting balls, I could start every swing by swinging the club OVER the ball along the target line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjEJNzxTXfA

Notice the smooth natural transition weight shift--the POST on my front leg before my shoulders come around--which accelerates the clubhead. But I have only occasionally been able to hit balls like that from a stationary setup with a real golf club and a golf ball down--and most amateurs (99% according to TPI) can't do it either.

Leadbetter strongly suggests this method to start our swing when we play! In his book "Fundamentals of Hogan" in the backswing section he says he has "ALL" his students at all levels do that--even touring pros!! I can remember seeing Davis Love III do that while warming up and possibly just before teeing off in tournaments.

I'm SOLD! From now one I will hit every ball with every club on range or course by first swinging the clubhead up over the ball and then starting my backswing.

BTW, I discovered that it is NOT necessary to place the clubhead behind the ball in order to return it to the ball accurately. If I can bring it back accurately, anyone can do it without setting the clubhead behind the ball.

I keep my backswing shorter automatically, likely because my hips have already started forward AS I finish the backswing--which is the essence of the transistion weight shift. My hips probably stop me from taking the club too high and getting the club off plane. Regardless, this works consistently despite minor errors because accelerating through is about 50 times more important than anything else!

Try it

Larry

Anyone who spends this much time thinking about swing mechanics will never play in my foursome. I've played with this type before. Before, after and during the round they're always quoting one instructor or another and talking about the swing. The golf swing isn't that complex. Just go out there and play golf for cryin' out loud. This is so gay.

[Mward2002]

That beep would annoy the piss out of me in a golf swing. With all those swing thoughts, how on Earth can he even swing? I get that technical and I can't even take the club back cause I don't even know what I'm doing anymore.

[Larryrsf]

Conclusions from my lesson today:

-Turn inside your feet (do not sway over either foot)
-Front shoulder dips down as shoulders turn to put the clubhead on plane
-Turn your front shoulder behind your back knee (back heel stays down)
-turn your hips to allow that --(which was important because I needed to setup with my front knee turned in-ready to allow my hips to turn back)
-Back knee oriented to stabilize the turn AND then move toward the front knee to start the downswing--
-So Both knees are setup flexed and slightly "knock-kneed"
-The knock-kneed setup keeps me centered over the ball-- and turning inside my feet.

And it works! I hit a few dozen+ beautiful 6i shots, getting better and better. I even tried starting with the clubhead over and ahead of the ball--and that works too, of course.

Nothing radical, just solid fundamentals-- Amazing how that works, ha


Larry

[Kiwi Player]

Conclusions from my lesson today:

-Turn inside your feet (do not sway over either foot)
-Front shoulder dips down as shoulders turn to put the clubhead on plane
-Turn your front shoulder behind your back knee (back heel stays down)
-turn your hips to allow that --(which was important because I needed to setup with my front knee turned in-ready to allow my hips to turn back)
-Back knee oriented to stabilize the turn AND then move toward the front knee to start the downswing--
-So Both knees are setup flexed and slightly "knock-kneed"
-The knock-kneed setup keeps me centered over the ball-- and turning inside my feet.

And it works! I hit a few dozen+ beautiful 6i shots, getting better and better. I even tried starting with the clubhead over and ahead of the ball--and that works too, of course.

Nothing radical, just solid fundamentals-- Amazing how that works, ha


Larry

Yep, no doubt about it. Just keep those 7 simple swing thoughts in your mind throughout every swing and you will be sweet!

[alangbaker]

Conclusions from my lesson today:

-Turn inside your feet (do not sway over either foot)

Not a problem for me.

-Front shoulder dips down as shoulders turn to put the clubhead on plane
-Turn your front shoulder behind your back knee (back heel stays down)

The back heel always stays down in the backswing, Larry...

-turn your hips to allow that --(which was important because I needed to setup with my front knee turned in-ready to allow my hips to turn back)
-Back knee oriented to stabilize the turn AND then move toward the front knee to start the downswing--
-So Both knees are setup flexed and slightly "knock-kneed"

Because you have this habit of swaying...

-The knock-kneed setup keeps me centered over the ball-- and turning inside my feet.

Correct pronoun: "me".

And it works! I hit a few dozen+ beautiful 6i shots, getting better and better. I even tried starting with the clubhead over and ahead of the ball--and that works too, of course.

Nothing radical, just solid fundamentals-- Amazing how that works, ha

I'm glad it works for you... ...truly.

Does this mean you're finally going to stop insisting that whatever your pro is trying to get you to do is automatically something we all need to do?

[spanqdoggie]

Alang,

You make valid points, but sometimes it is cathartic to write our personal discoveries, even if online; Larry has mentioned he doesn't give a rat's ass what any of you think.

Larry, obviously has lived a good life, and he is in good health, and he has more money than you probably ever will.

Alang, Larry laughs at your posts while he drinks fine wine and eats great steaks. He writes about golf because it is so meaningless and yet fun.

I think Larry is probably a retired electrical engineer or scientist or something; his brain works wrong for the golf swing, true, (keep it simple) but he definitely has an intellect, plus an "I don't give a sh!t so I am posting videos of myself here on GR" attitude.

Another really smart guy I remember was Jeff Hagner from whom I bought some clubs from (former GR poster); very intelligent man; polite, and honest. I still use those clubs today.

Oh and I have had 3 really good lessons from a pro in the last 6 weeks. My pro has the opposite teaching strategy of Larry's teacher, but whatever works for us; neither is wrong or right... My teacher has a minimalist approach to the golf swing; I walk away with one swing thought from my lesson.

Example:

Lesson 1: too much shoulders; swing with your arms; your shoulders will follow your arms.
Lesson 2: stop cocking your wrists at the beginning of swing.
Lesson 3: do not tuck your right arm past 90 degrees into your body; keep at around 90 degrees for right arm for swing; keep the right arm open.

So over almost two months, I am working on only 3 things that apply to ME ONLY, you know.

Rock on Larry!

Alang, stop being a d!ckhead here on GR. You will never be as big a d!ckhead as me here on GR, so do not even try it.

I am the biggest d!ckhead on GR. You have a long way to go to get there...

[edgey]

Alang, I am the biggest d!ckhead on GR. You have a long way to go to get there...

Spank, it isnt Alang that is threatening your well deserved position as GR's biggest d ickhead. I suggest you aim your angst at someone else, someone older, more right wing. You can work it out big fella

Edgey

[spanqdoggie]

Spank, it isnt Alang that is threatening your well deserved position as GR's biggest d ickhead. I suggest you aim your angst at someone else, someone older, more right wing. You can work it out big fella

Edgey

Okay, look, without researching your reply, I will assume that Alang is not trying to steal my position as the biggest d!ckhead ever on GR.

However, Larry is a nice guy.

Edgey, in all honesty, I like Larry. Look, I love n iggers and chinks and kikes and dagos and gooks and everybody.

Sheeit, my best man, in my wedding, is a dark ass spook. If you were born in San Francisco, a city so diverse, race doesn't matter; we are just human.

Edgey, are you a honky, chink, or a spook?

I got nothing but love for Larry.

[Mward2002]

The more I read these contradictory swing thoughts , the more frustrated I get for Larry and my hatred for him increases because I missed the Tai Chi video.

This will be as serious as I can get for this stubborn as.s old man: Quit getting all these random teachers every week to teach you. Stick with one guy and use him. Multiple ideas are just going to contradict things. One teacher may see one thing causing the root of your problems and try and get you to fix them. Another may tell you the opposite because he's going about solving one thing at a time instead of fixing the main problem. Once you stick with that teacher, don't tell us about your lesson. It's not that we don't want to know, as we enjoy routinely making fun of you. They just DON'T APPLY TO US. You have a goofy as.s left handed swing. I don't. Therefore our lefts and rights are now doing different things. You may swing steep and I flat. Therefore anything about decreasing your shoulder tilt just messed up my swing. You may not lag the club enough, I may lag it too much. So any lesson you spout off about trying to hold the angle just gave me the blocks and snap hooks because I'm now farther under plane cause I'm trying to hold an angle I need to be actually lessening. Do you see the pattern here?

[Larryrsf]

Actually this is simple-and I am far from paralyzed by analysis.

I just take my normal setup with hands in close, and set my knees a little toward each other, then swing.

The pro noticed that I was not turning my hips BACK enough and that was restricting my shoulder turn. I realized that the hips are actually our knees-- whatever the knees do, the hips do, so I oriented my back knee to let my hips turn back as I backswing. Instantly my hips turned more and I found it easy to get my lead shoulder over my back knee. Voila! I'm an engineer. All we have to do is understand the interaction of things--and then go to the root cause for our adjustment.

I setup with my back knee flexed and oriented forward (like Gary Player did) for two reasons, first to avoid letting it straighten in my backswing, and to prepare it to move toward my front knee as I start my downswing. We want to start with hips. The knee and the hips move together, This explains why most good golfers setup with knees slightly inward "knock-kneed."

I backswing turn until my lead shoulder is over my back knee--and swing! Amazingly I just find myself in the classic finish position-- and I can pick up my back foot to prove it.

Occasionally I cross-check my backswing by setting up, then lifting my arms slightly, setting my wrists, and turning 90 degrees (until my front shoulder is over my back knee). That is the top position--IF we turn correctly with hands remaining in front of our chest--and NO bogus hand or wrist manipulation. Cross-check complete. You can see the young guys on the Nationwide Tour doing this on the range before tournaments.

Good luck!

Larry

[lorenzoinoc]

Larry -- You never seem to discuss putting much. Could you start a couple of putting threads? How are you liking the Scotty?

[The Purist]

Larry -- You never seem to discuss putting much. Could you start a couple of putting threads? How are you liking the Scotty?

Are you still using a Scotty? Mine has been collecting dust.

[lorenzoinoc]

Are you still using a Scotty? Mine has been collecting dust.

I'm rolling a T.P. Mills these days, ever since I vomited watching Scotty Cameron talk about his new putters in video. Here's another one. Select Jan part 1.

http://www.scottycameron.com/studio/videos.aspx

[alangbaker]

Actually this is simple-and I am far from paralyzed by analysis.

I just take my normal setup with hands in close, and set my knees a little toward each other, then swing.

The pro noticed that I was not turning my hips BACK enough and that was restricting my shoulder turn. I realized that the hips are actually our knees-- whatever the knees do, the hips do, so I oriented my back knee to let my hips turn back as I backswing. Instantly my hips turned more and I found it easy to get my lead shoulder over my back knee. Voila! I'm an engineer. All we have to do is understand the interaction of things--and then go to the root cause for our adjustment.

I setup with my back knee flexed and oriented forward (like Gary Player did) for two reasons, first to avoid letting it straighten in my backswing, and to prepare it to move toward my front knee as I start my downswing. We want to start with hips. The knee and the hips move together, This explains why most good golfers setup with knees slightly inward "knock-kneed."

I backswing turn until my lead shoulder is over my back knee--and swing! Amazingly I just find myself in the classic finish position-- and I can pick up my back foot to prove it.

Occasionally I cross-check my backswing by setting up, then lifting my arms slightly, setting my wrists, and turning 90 degrees (until my front shoulder is over my back knee). That is the top position--IF we turn correctly with hands remaining in front of our chest--and NO bogus hand or wrist manipulation. Cross-check complete. You can see the young guys on the Nationwide Tour doing this on the range before tournaments.

Sorry, but that last is complete nonsense. If you only do those steps, the head of the club will be closer to the ball than the butt of the club when you're at the top. Since you haven't said anything about the arms moving across the chest, both arms will still be completely straight. When's the last time you saw a top of swing position that didn't have the right arm (for a rightie) bent roughly 90 degrees at the elbow?

[Ty_Webb]

The pro noticed that I was not turning my hips BACK enough and that was restricting my shoulder turn.

Good luck!

Larry

Hey Larry,

I'm glad that's working out for you, but in the meantime, remind me what you said to me when I told you you weren't turning your shoulders enough?

[Larryrsf]

Larry -- You never seem to discuss putting much. Could you start a couple of putting threads? How are you liking the Scotty?

Yes, I use a Scotty Newport with custom handle and grip. But I putt the same with any putter from big mallets to tiny blades. Same stroke, I get the same ball roll since I smoothly stroke rather than "pop" the ball.

I hate putting. I am decent BECAUSE I don't practice and I don't sweat it. I just setup and swing smoothly. I envision the line and swing down that. I occasionally practice with my "Putting Arc" here on my practice green. But I don't need to do that very often to reproduce that smooth stroke--allowing the putterhead to open and close naturally. I grip it so lightly that the handle is nearly falling from my fingers. And now and then I make one! I am good at lagging, so I get it close by stroking it the right distance--and when I miss, I miss it 2 feet long on the high side, occasionally one falls in!

larry

[Larryrsf]

Hey Larry,

I'm glad that's working out for you, but in the meantime, remind me what you said to me when I told you you weren't turning your shoulders enough?

If you said that, you were right. I was unable to turn my shoulders fully because my front leg was locking my hips. I am not flexible enough to turn my front shoulder behind my back knee unless my hips turn back 45 degrees or so. SOOO, by setting my front foot straight (not 45 degrees toward the target) and by tilting my front knee in, my hips are free to more naturally turn back and that frees up up my shoulders. I am experimenting these days with starting my backswing by moving my front knee back AS I take the club back.

Fun stuff. As you know, I like solving the swing puzzle a LOT more than playing golf with putting, etc. Like Hogan, I think there should be range competition-- or maybe a scoring contest counting ONLY fairways and greens hit in regulation. Forget putting, that's a silly part of our game, almost unrelated to the game of golf.

Larry

[alangbaker]

I hate putting. I am decent BECAUSE I don't practice and I don't sweat it. I just setup and swing smoothly. I occasionally practice with my "Putting Arc" here on my practice green. But I don't need to do that very often to remember that stroke--allowing the putterhead to open and close naturally. I grip it so lightly that the handle is nearly falling from my fingers. And now and then I make one! I am good at lagging, so I get it close by stroking it the right distance--and when I miss, I miss it 2 feet long on the high side, occasionally one falls in!

So you're only "decent" because you always miss your lag putts by "2 feet long on the high side", are you?

Sounds like a recipe for a lot of two-putts to me, and with you hitting green's in regulation "93.7%, and also my fairways hit which is at 90.1%", I'm confused about how you could possibly have shot all those rounds near 100 back when you made that quote?

Where exactly did you lose all those strokes to par, Larry?

[alangbaker]

If you said that, you were right. I was unable to turn my shoulders fully because my front leg was locking my hips. I am not flexible enough to turn my front shoulder behind my back knee unless my hips turn back 45 degrees or so. SOOO, by setting my front foot straight (not 45 degrees toward the target) and by tilting my front knee in, my hips are free to more naturally turn back and that frees up up my shoulders. I am experimenting these days with starting my backswing by moving my front knee back AS I take the club back.

Fun stuff. As you know, I like solving the swing puzzle a LOT more than playing golf with putting, etc. Like Hogan, I think there should be range competition-- or maybe a scoring contest counting ONLY fairways and greens hit in regulation. Forget putting, that's a silly part of our game, almost unrelated to the game of golf.

But you're such a "decent" putter, Larry? LOL

Why should you want to leave out that part of the game? Unless it's so you can have an excuse...

[Not a hacker]

Actually this is simple-and I am far from paralyzed by analysis.

I just take my normal setup with hands in close, and set my knees a little toward each other, then swing.

The pro noticed that I was not turning my hips BACK enough and that was restricting my shoulder turn. I realized that the hips are actually our knees-- whatever the knees do, the hips do, so I oriented my back knee to let my hips turn back as I backswing. Instantly my hips turned more and I found it easy to get my lead shoulder over my back knee. Voila! I'm an engineer. All we have to do is understand the interaction of things--and then go to the root cause for our adjustment.

I setup with my back knee flexed and oriented forward (like Gary Player did) for two reasons, first to avoid letting it straighten in my backswing, and to prepare it to move toward my front knee as I start my downswing. We want to start with hips. The knee and the hips move together, This explains why most good golfers setup with knees slightly inward "knock-kneed."

I backswing turn until my lead shoulder is over my back knee--and swing! Amazingly I just find myself in the classic finish position-- and I can pick up my back foot to prove it.

Occasionally I cross-check my backswing by setting up, then lifting my arms slightly, setting my wrists, and turning 90 degrees (until my front shoulder is over my back knee). That is the top position--IF we turn correctly with hands remaining in front of our chest--and NO bogus hand or wrist manipulation. Cross-check complete. You can see the young guys on the Nationwide Tour doing this on the range before tournaments.

Good luck!

Larry

Do you have any idea how full of shitt you are Larry? I'd comment further but I just don't know where to start. You're almost as full of shitt as Scotty Cameron is on thatt video Zo sent around. You should start emailing him so you can bore each other stupid.

[spanqdoggie]

Do you have any idea how full of shitt you are Larry? I'd comment further but I just don't know where to start. You're almost as full of shitt as Scotty Cameron is on thatt video Zo sent around. You should start emailing him so you can bore each other stupid.

Come on dude; you shouldn't show disrespect to somehow who has lived their whole life, and knows more than you about life in many areas...

What is up with all the jackasses attacking Larry? He is a nice guy; his brain works that way, and it made him successful in his engineering career.

He is just blogging here; he doesn't give a rat's ass about any of us.

The amount of disrespect shown towards a man in his late 50's or 60's really sucks.

I will come down hard on teenagers and jackasses, but a man that won't swear or respond to attacks; hell no.

Larry, you are a good man, and whatever works for you, keep doing it; I love your videos.

[Not a hacker]

Come on dude; you shouldn't show disrespect to somehow who has lived their whole life, and knows more than you about life in many areas...

What is up with all the jackasses attacking Larry? He is a nice guy; his brain works that way, and it made him successful in his engineering career.

He is just blogging here; he doesn't give a rat's ass about any of us.

The amount of disrespect shown towards a man in his late 50's or 60's really sucks.

I will come down hard on teenagers and jackasses, but a man that won't swear or respond to attacks; hell no.

Larry, you are a good man, and whatever works for you, keep doing it; I love your videos.

do a search on posts containing 'LarryRSF' and 'Alan g Baker' and tell me Larry doesn't respond to attacks.

[Larryrsf]

do a search on posts containing 'LarryRSF' and 'Alan g Baker' and tell me Larry doesn't respond to attacks.

Boring. I ignore AB. I regret every time I have posted in response to the hundreds of posts to or about me from him. I am puzzled why they abide him here. He has been permanently banned from nearly every other GD forum for that same behavior. They always warn him, warn him again, then the moderators spit him out like a watermelon seed. But he just keeps doing it. He apparently cannot stop this obnoxious behavior. Conflict is the reason he posts. Poor guy needs it. Would be interesting to learn what damaged his brain.

As some of you discern, I am uninterested in posts from anyone--unless you can credibly add to my journey. If you have taken or are currently taking a series of serious golf lessons, if you are trying to ingrain a fundamentally correct golf swing, if you have accomplished that, I am interested in your journey. We can learn from each other.

But if you refuse to take lessons, if you are trying to teach yourself, you don't even know how little you know about the golf swing-- So I am not interested in wasting even a few seconds reading what you think--

Larry

[famousdavis]

What if my current golf swing is already fully ingrained? I am worthy?

[Mward2002]

Fun stuff. As you know, I like solving the swing puzzle a LOT more than playing golf with putting, etc. Like Hogan, I think there should be range competition-- or maybe a scoring contest counting ONLY fairways and greens hit in regulation. Forget putting, that's a silly part of our game, almost unrelated to the game of golf.

Larry

Hogan could break par. You cannot. Putting is even more important than hitting the fairway and green. The putter makes or breaks a round.

[alangbaker]

As some of you discern, I am uninterested in posts from anyone--unless you can credibly add to my journey. If you have taken or are currently taking a series of serious golf lessons, if you are trying to ingrain a fundamentally correct golf swing, if you have accomplished that, I am interested in your journey. We can learn from each other.

Please. You've never been the slightest bit interested in learning from anyone. All you've ever been interested in doing is beating your chest and declaring how you're superior to "99% of amateurs". When it became obvious that your bull about scores wouldn't fly, you switched to claiming superiority by virtue of being more dedicated to improvement, that's all.

But if you refuse to take lessons, if you are trying to teach yourself, you don't even know how little you know about the golf swing-- So I am not interested in wasting even a few seconds reading what you think--

LOL

Who was who said not to take advice from anyone who didn't have at least lower than a 10 handicap? What's your handicap, Larry?

[No_Idea]

http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf.../0/VLc6E7-BhQ8

This drill with the SwingSetter started it. A teaching pro on another Golf discussion group complimented me on this smooth action and wondered whether I could do that with a normal club. My pro also said it looks good-- but was skeptical whether I can do it with a real club while hitting balls. Most amateurs swing differently with a ball down.

So today I went to the range and hit a small bucket from the range mat with 6i. I experimented by setting up, then placing the club over the ball several feet along the swing path, then smoothly rocking into my backswing. Wow! I have NEVER, NEVER, hit golf balls so crisply and consistently. The whole bucket went like that! I simply COULD NOT MISS! I could hit a target at 160 yards, but I could also fly that by swinging just a little harder. I could hit draws by simply looking at the inside of the ball. I could hit nice fades by looking at the outside. NO other changes, just looking there made it happen! I was using the good fundamentals from recent lessons, getting my grip and stance exactly right before every swing--but I still always mishit a few, made some poor swings, decelerated, failed to get off my back foot, etc. Not this time!!!.


Try it

Larry

Ehemm.. I think the tool should not 'snap' when you swing correctly.

[pingman360]

Ehemm.. I think the tool should not 'snap' when you swing correctly.

actually you would be wrong then....

[Mward2002]

Agreed. The device is really just a series of magnets that you separate via centrifugal force. It teaches you to time your release right and diagnoses early releases, late releases, etc. Other than that it's a POS endorsed by Leadbetter. I'm not sure how the rest of the settings work, I've only swung one a few times and didn't care much for it. It just looks cheesy and poorly made.

[Kiwi Player]

Agreed. The device is really just a series of magnets that you separate via centrifugal force. It teaches you to time your release right and diagnoses early releases, late releases, etc. Other than that it's a POS endorsed by Leadbetter. I'm not sure how the rest of the settings work, I've only swung one a few times and didn't care much for it. It just looks cheesy and poorly made.

Yeah agreed, and expensive too for a POS gimmick that probably won't do much for you once you're swinging an actual golf club.

[lorenzoinoc]

The real use for it is as a sexual aid. DL is able to get the second ball up his a.ss with the device set on vibrate.

[Larryrsf]

What if my current golf swing is already fully ingrained? I am worthy?

I would love to see it. I expect you to see you downswing without flattening the shaft or bringing the clubhead to the ball on plane from the inside. Ricky Fowler at Torrey Pines yesterday was a good model to emulate. My pro liked his swing best.

Larry

[Kiwi Player]

I would love to see it. I expect you to see you downswing without flattening the shaft or bringing the clubhead to the ball on plane from the inside. Ricky Fowler at Torrey Pines yesterday was a good model to emulate. My pro liked his swing best.

Larry

What is this 'flattening the shaft' BS you are on about lately Larry? If Famousdavis has a decent swing his shaft will be on plane at the top of his backswing/beginning of his downswing and there would be absolutely no need to 'flatten the shaft'.

Also if he is half as good a ballstriker as he claims to be of course he will be approaching the ball from the inside. All decent ball strikers (I know that excludes you) approach the ball from the inside. You describe this as if it is some new, revolutionary method to hit the ball. Anyone with a semblance of knowledge of the golf swing knows this.

[Larryrsf]

What is this 'flattening the shaft' BS you are on about lately Larry? If Famousdavis has a decent swing his shaft will be on plane at the top of his backswing/beginning of his downswing and there would be absolutely no need to 'flatten the shaft'.

Also if he is half as good a ballstriker as he claims to be of course he will be approaching the ball from the inside. All decent ball strikers (I know that excludes you) approach the ball from the inside. You describe this as if it is some new, revolutionary method to hit the ball. Anyone with a semblance of knowledge of the golf swing knows this.

Whew! Read something about the golf swing. All good golfers flatten the shaft as they transition from backswing to downswing. Modern teaching has the golfer take it up almost vertical, then flatten the shaft (point the butt to or even beyond the target line through the ball) as the shoulder tilt back and the weight shifts to the front leg. That move puts the shaft on plane to bring it the ball from the inside.

Read "Swing Like A Pro" page 161. There are dozens of other references to this move-- which is an integral part of the fundamentally correct golf swing.

Larry

[alangbaker]

Whew! Read something about the golf swing. All good golfers flatten the shaft as they transition from backswing to downswing. Modern teaching has the golfer take it up almost vertical, then flatten the shaft (point the butt to or even beyond the target line through the ball) as the shoulder tilt back and the weight shifts to the front leg. That move puts the shaft on plane to bring it the ball from the inside.

Whew. Watch a video some time.

Tiger Woods doesn't flatten the shaft and neither does your hero Hogan.

Read "Swing Like A Pro" page 161. There are dozens of other references to this move-- which is an integral part of the fundamentally correct golf swing.

I'm sorry, but the only thing you're likely to have been right about is that one shouldn't take advice from 17 handicaps.

Oh, wait: you're only passing along the advice, right? But you're the one *choosing* which advice is right...

...this week.

[Kiwi Player]

Read something about the golf swing.

Good idea Larry, you are absolutely right. I will start by ignoring ALL of your posts.

[Larryrsf]

Good idea Larry, you are absolutely right. I will start by ignoring ALL of your posts.

http://how-to-play-golf.suite101.com...wing_golf_tips

Above is a typical article about this move that every good golfer does-- to avoid OTT. This author calls it "left arm rotation." It is the same thing. The shaft butt is pointed further from his feet, "flattening" it. This move puts the golfer in position to bring his right elbow down BEHIND his back hip.

This is advanced golf-- and the kind of stuff we learn from PGA pros while taking lessons. Hint, hint.

Larry

[alangbaker]

http://how-to-play-golf.suite101.com...wing_golf_tips

Above is a typical article about this move that every good golfer does-- to avoid OTT. This author calls it "left arm rotation." It is the same thing. The shaft butt is pointed further from his feet, "flattening" it. This move puts the golfer in position to bring his right elbow down BEHIND his back hip.

You realize that his utterly contradicts your recent posts where you insist that if you simply cock the club straight up towards your face, lift your arms slightly upward and then rotate your shoulders you'll be in a perfect top of swing position, don't you?

And absolutely nowhere in that article does the author suggest that the swing should flatten as you transition. On the contrary, he suggest that the left arm rotates as you swing back and that if you do it just enough, you'll arrive at the top precisely on plane.

"From this position the golfer has to keep the club in plane to the top of the backswing and all the way back to half way on the downswing."

That is explicit enough even for your rather limited reading comprehension, I should think.

And he also junks your whole "point the butt of the club at the toes when halfway back" bull, too:

"As the left arm rotates the right arm folds.
The move could be summed up as ‘turn, then point the club at the ball’."

This is advanced golf-- and the kind of stuff we learn from PGA pros while taking lessons. Hint, hint.

Larry, if you exemplify what kind of swing you get from taking lessons, the PGA would have to disband.

So way to go, Larry: you've pointed to a post as proving one thing when it says precisely the opposite!

[Larryrsf]

Why do you post? Every posts confirms that you are a moron!!! Of course there are minor differences in the backswing--as the golfer takes a different route to achieve the identical position that triggers his downswing. Only you are unable to understand that. Why not admit that golf is too cerebral for you-- and take up tiddly winks or something. Go away!

Larry

[pingman360]

Why do you post? Every posts confirms that you are a moron!!! Go away!

Larry

we could say the same about you... ironic isn't it...

[alangbaker]

Why do you post? Every posts confirms that you are a moron!!! Of course there are minor differences in the backswing--as the golfer takes a different route to achieve the identical position that triggers his downswing. Only you are unable to understand that. Why not admit that golf is too cerebral for you-- and take up tiddly winks or something. Go away!

Please, Larry: I can give you 3 a side and still kick your ass...

I'm a real 9.5 handicap, Larry. I play the ball down and post all my scores. You: if you hadn't stop posting your scores you'd be lucky if your handicap wasn't over 20.

Everything I posted was verbatim out of the article you made so much of. Don't blame me that it happens to contradict what you were claiming.

You're not really interested in becoming a good golfer, Larry: you're interested in bragging about how much more dedicated you are, how much more you spend...

...in short, you need to brag because you have low self-esteem issues...

...but I really don't give a damn.

[lorenzoinoc]

To me, flattening the shaft means getting stuck. It should happen automatically in a two plane swing. In a one plane swing, barely at all. Don't think flatten the shaft, think delay forward shoulder rotation.

[noshuz]

Please, Larry: I can give you 3 a side and still kick your ass...

I'm a real 9.5 handicap, Larry. I play the ball down and post all my scores. You: if you hadn't stop posting your scores you'd be lucky if your handicap wasn't over 20.

Everything I posted was verbatim out of the article you made so much of. Don't blame me that it happens to contradict what you were claiming.

You're not really interested in becoming a good golfer, Larry: you're interested in bragging about how much more dedicated you are, how much more you spend...

...in short, you need to brag because you have low self-esteem issues...

...but I really don't give a damn.

Yer wasting your time on him Alan. He's right and everybodys wrong.....

[Horseballs]

Another genius piece of writing by resident guru larryrsf. I think all his detractors are jealous haters. At least that's what my pro keeps telling me.
100 replies is just around the corner.

[lorenzoinoc]

I'm that rare case of not being a detractor, but still being a jealous hater.